Israel stops fuel shipments; Gaza City goes dark (Earth, elders)

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

So the answer is Israel hurting the people of Gaza, too? Isn't that precisely the reason for the bombing in the first place . . . ? The bigger picture is a war for the identities and support of the people. Punishing the people for the acts of radicals eases the tension that should otherwise be there between decent, ordinary people and the radicals who need their support.

Hamas bombs us every single day, an organization who cut, of their own free will, the power to their own people in Gaza City. They want to be able to parade out the dead and dying before CNN and BBC.

Our people are put in danger, many have fled the surrounding cities near the Gaza Strip, but, hey, it's our own fault, right?

[kai]

Originally Posted by fullyveiled muslimah

Another article concerning this issue.

Egypt starts to control crowds from Gaza - Yahoo! News


From the article:



Interesting that at first the Israelis don't want a humanitarian crisis, but they want to stop food, water, and medical supplies? Make that make sense to me.

i thought you wanted an independant state , maybe egypt could supply Gaza with all its needs .

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by jewscout

hey, it's our own fault, right?

Straw man.

Of course it's not your own fault. It's not about fault. How you respond to it is your decision, and whether you understand why they are doing it or not is a matter to be carefully considered. Vengeance against the people of Gaza is certainly one option, and if it has undesirable consequences, then those consequences are the result of all those whose choices made those consequences manifest, including those who choose vengeance, but also those who provoked them to it.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

It's not going to be easy. But right now, nobody is offering the people anything to hope for other than radical religious fantasies. If the US and Israel offered them schools, medicine and hope and the "Taliban-like" Hamas was taking it away from them . . . then the real war (the one for hearts and minds) would be winnable.

why is Israel and the US always the ones responsible?

what about the oil rich Arab world?

I'd like to see Israel build schools and hospitals for the Palestinians...but i'd bet the life of my first born child they wouldn't last 6 months before they were burned to the ground.

by the way, until the rise of Hamas, the PA got millions in international aid, yet little was used to build anything.

Just recently the international community has just approved 7.6 BILLION dollars for the PA, 40% to go to the Gaza Strip.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...495681,00.html

[kai]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

It's not going to be easy. But right now, nobody is offering the people anything to hope for other than radical religious fantasies. If the US and Israel offered them schools, medicine and hope and the "Taliban-like" Hamas was taking it away from them . . . then the real war (the one for hearts and minds) would be winnable.

they already have taken it away from them why do you think its like it is , its not like it on the west bank, the troops have gone and they still wont ceasefire, and the battle for hearts and minds has become an east west battle now i dont think you know to much about middle eastern politics. your idea is pure fairy tale ending

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by kai

your idea is pure fairy tale ending

And yours is an endless nightmare.

[kai]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

And yours is an endless nightmare.

it could well be, or even worse than that

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

Straw man.

Of course it's not your own fault. It's not about fault. How you respond to it is your decision, and whether you understand why they are doing it or not is a matter to be carefully considered. Vengeance against the people of Gaza is certainly one option, and if it has undesirable consequences, then those consequences are the result of all those whose choices made those consequences manifest, including those who choose vengeance, but also those who provoked them to it.

you talk about winning hearts and minds. that war was lost the moment the first jew set foot back in Eretz Yisrael. We tried for peace but it was always thrown in our face. It took several wars and several defeats for Egypt and Jordan to give us peace, and i wonder how much of that was motivated by a desire to not want to take care of the Palestinians anymore, who were also put behind a wall by Egypt.

since the days of the Mufti the war of hearts and minds was lost to us, and the subsequent wars against Israel have only made things worse. every defeat was turned into a rally cry for revenge.

that pattern has not stopped.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by fullyveiled muslimah