Palestine: Freedom Is What They Want (Earth, beliefs, blood, choice)

[Booko]

Originally Posted by rocka21

thanks for the maps booko!

A picture is truly worth 1000 words.

so Israel was attacked , and then grabed the land?

Yes, and then through negotiations they gave some of it back.

Naturally, Israel would want some reassurances that they would not be attacked again. I would hardly suggest anyone act naively.

btw, the attack on Egypt was preemptive, not that I am implying it was wrongheaded, mind you. I don't know how much you know about the geography of the area and military methods, but let's just say that a country as narrow as Israel would have to act in some ways that a country as large as ours would not. They can't take the risk of being overrun, because at the narrowest point they could be overrun in just one hour. 12 miles is not a lot of land to cross, even with heavy artillery. Well, that's another story -- sorry but our family is rather fond of wargaming and military history, so I kinda can't help myself.

i guess to the victor went the spoils.

No. The U.N. passed resolutions, and various leaders have promised to abide by those. Now if only they would.

"To the victor goes the spoils" is a formula guaranteed to ensure the area sees no peace or justice.

i wonder how much land would have been taken by the other side if they had won the war? i wonder?

While I would not suggest forgetting the past, to live in it only guarantees there will never be a solution to this problem, and people on both sides will continue to suffer as a result. What is the point of that?

Frankly I wonder if the area wouldn't be better served if 6 shopkeepers and farmers weren't chosen from each side by lottery, with the proviso that none of them had any connections with any power block anywhere.

My guess is if 12 humble people just trying to make a living in the area were to sit down over a series of dinners, they would be able to solve this problem where the "leaders" have not.

Politics is getting in the way of peace there, along with a lack of justice generally.

[rocka21]

Originally Posted by Booko

A picture is truly worth 1000 words.



Yes, and then through negotiations they gave some of it back.

Naturally, Israel would want some reassurances that they would not be attacked again. I would hardly suggest anyone act naively.

btw, the attack on Egypt was preemptive, not that I am implying it was wrongheaded, mind you. I don't know how much you know about the geography of the area and military methods, but let's just say that a country as narrow as Israel would have to act in some ways that a country as large as ours would not. They can't take the risk of being overrun, because at the narrowest point they could be overrun in just one hour. 12 miles is not a lot of land to cross, even with heavy artillery. Well, that's another story -- sorry but our family is rather fond of wargaming and military history, so I kinda can't help myself.



No. The U.N. passed resolutions, and various leaders have promised to abide by those. Now if only they would.

"To the victor goes the spoils" is a formula guaranteed to ensure the area sees no peace or justice.



While I would not suggest forgetting the past, to live in it only guarantees there will never be a solution to this problem, and people on both sides will continue to suffer as a result. What is the point of that?

Frankly I wonder if the area wouldn't be better served if 6 shopkeepers and farmers weren't chosen from each side by lottery, with the proviso that none of them had any connections with any power block anywhere.

My guess is if 12 humble people just trying to make a living in the area were to sit down over a series of dinners, they would be able to solve this problem where the "leaders" have not.

Politics is getting in the way of peace there, along with a lack of justice generally.

GREAT POST!

now if we could just get the two sides to sit and talk and listen. i wonder why the leaders don't meet like once a month and talk about a solution?

[Trey of Diamonds]

Originally Posted by Booko

My guess is if 12 humble people just trying to make a living in the area were to sit down over a series of dinners, they would be able to solve this problem where the "leaders" have not.

Politics is getting in the way of peace there, along with a lack of justice generally.

The problem I have with this view is that it is the Palestine as a nation will not allow it to happen. I think the Israelis would come to the table if the Palestinians would meet them half way. But as long as the Palestine government continues to teach their children to hate and kill, what can be done? When one side is totally and completely set against peace, how can the other side negotiate? Palestine does not want peace. Palestine does not want the refugees to find homes. Palestine does not want the blood to stop flowing. Palestine wants Israel to be destroyed and all Jews to live in exile or die. As long as that is the goal of the nation of Palestine, it doesn't matter what storekeepers and farmers want.

Americans especially need to understand that there are times when words don't work. There are people who can't be negotiated with. Diplomacy isn't always the answer.

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by Trey of Diamonds

The problem I have with this view is that it is the Palestine as a nation will not allow it to happen. I think the Israelis would come to the table if the Palestinians would meet them half way. But as long as the Palestine government continues to teach their children to hate and kill, what can be done? When one side is totally and completely set against peace, how can the other side negotiate? Palestine does not want peace. Palestine does not want the refugees to find homes. Palestine does not want the blood to stop flowing. Palestine wants Israel to be destroyed and all Jews to live in exile or die. As long as that is the goal of the nation of Palestine, it doesn't matter what storekeepers and farmers want.

I asked these questions in another thread before and no one could answer them.

What will you do, if you were a Palestinian?

1- You don't have a country.
2- You don't have a passport.
3- If you went out so you can't go in.
4- If you were out so you can't enter to your land, but all Jews are welcomed anytime and anywhere inside Israel whether they were Israelis in the first place or not.
5- You can't enter to your holy mosque but the tourists from all the world including Israelis can visit it.
6- Your family have been splited and spread in many countries just because they were in the wrong place and the wrong time so.
7- They didn't just colonized your country, but they also don't allow you to have your own state.
8- You can't complain if the Israeli government destroyed your house.
9- If you have been caught for any reason, you will be inside the jail and they will torture you till you give up and claim anything from your imagination, or work as a spy for them.
10- You can't have proper food, proper education, proper job just because you were in the wrong city when Israel have been established.
11- The jews can attack you "if you were inside Israel"(see the video in my pervious posts) but you can't say nothing about it.
12- Your leaders will be murdered one after another just because they are fighting for their rights.
13- All the world decide something, then out of the sudden USA use the VETO and stop any action to give the Palestinians any right or question Israel's actions, and you have to obey what you have been told by them, they will label you as a terrorist.
14- Your old father couldn't get a proper medicine so he died, your uncle is in Israeli prison, your sister have been raped by the Israeli military, your little brother have been shoot (BY MISTAKE) as they said, and your mom lost it.


Do you want more?

[sindbad5]

Originally Posted by Trey of Diamonds

I think the Israelis would come to the table if the Palestinians would meet them half way.

Palestinians come the whole way - not just the half way, but more than this some Palestinian - fath, bend to the knee seeking peace, so what they get? they get either ignorance and despise, or deceive and more agony.

Originally Posted by Trey of Diamonds

But as long as the Palestine government continues to teach their children to hate and kill, what can be done?

WOW...
at least they just learn this in theory, what about the other side practice it by hand ?

Originally Posted by Trey of Diamonds

When one side is totally and completely set against peace, how can the other side negotiate? Palestine does not want peace. Palestine does not want the refugees to find homes. Palestine does not want the blood to stop flowing.

dear, looking at the side who loose, this's not much intelligence from palestine, right? WHAT A LOGIC !!!

Originally Posted by Trey of Diamonds

Americans especially need to understand that there are times when words don't work. There are people who can't be negotiated with. Diplomacy isn't always the answer.

ladies and gentlemen, i honored to present to you "Mr. Ideal Zionist"

thank you "Trey of Diamonds" for helping uncover a little bit what's under the Zionists hood

[Jaiket]

Originally Posted by The Truth

What will you do, if you were a Palestinian?

Despair.

[greatcalgarian]

Originally Posted by rocka21

thanks for the maps booko!



so Israel was attacked , and then grabed the land?

i guess to the victor went the spoils.

i wonder how much land would have been taken by the other side if they had won the war? i wonder?

I shall even proposed further, go back to the 1948 partition as proposed by the British and rectified by the UN.

Now if in 1967, Arabs won and grab more land than that designated by the UN in 1948, Arabs shall be held responsible, and the UN should send in army to drive out the Arabs.

Accepting the British/UN 1948 is a compromise that may be better than the scenorio that all Jews that immigrated to Israel prior to 1930 should return to the country where they were residence there for a few generations, and let the current Israel/WestBank etc become an independent country democratically elected secular government.

[greatcalgarian]

Originally Posted by The Truth

Palestine: Freedom Is What They Want
by Charley Reese

Americans should remember the cliché "what goes around, comes around." Nobody gets a free pass to sin against humanity. The rest of the world sees us as we are. Other countries see the hypocrisy, the lies, the deliberate negligence of the American press. They see the callous disregard for death and suffering. To use the vernacular, we ain't making any friends in heaven or on Earth.

[/center]

This has happened, but Americans refused to recognize it, and persecuted the American 'native' that told them this, Ward Churchill, a professor in the Ethnic Studies department at the University of Colorado, Boulder.

http://www.democracynow.org/article....5/02/18/157211

According to over 600 academics signing an "An Open Letter from Concerned Academics":[18]

To be clear: the issues here have nothing to do with the quality of Ward Churchill’s scholarship or his professional credentials. However one views his choice of words or specific arguments, he is being put in the dock solely for his radical critique of U.S. history and present-day policy in the wake of the events of September 11, 2001. Apparently, 9/11 is now the third rail of American intellectual life: to critically probe into its causes and to interrogate the international role of the United States is treated as heresy; those inquiring can be denied forums, careers, and even personal safety. . .The Churchill case is not an isolated incident but a concentrated example of a well-orchestrated campaign launched in the name of “academic freedom” and “balance” which in fact aims to purge the universities of more radical thinkers and oppositional thought generally, and to create a climate of intimidation.

– An Open Letter from Concerned Academics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Ch...ay_controversy

If Americans are blind to their government agenda of dominating the world, there will be no peace in Middle East until the time the oil ran out there.

[rocka21]

Originally Posted by greatcalgarian

This has happened, but Americans refused to recognize it, and persecuted the American 'native' that told them this, Ward Churchill, a professor in the Ethnic Studies department at the University of Colorado, Boulder.

http://www.democracynow.org/article....5/02/18/157211

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Ch...ay_controversy

If Americans are blind to their government agenda of dominating the world, there will be no peace in Middle East until the time the oil ran out there.

them darn Americans and Jew's!!!! The root of all evil!!!

[greatcalgarian]