Is Jesus For the Jews? (Messiah, salvation, religion, judaism)

[EnhancedSpirit]

Jesus did not come to create a new religion. Jesus was a Jew who did not follow all the old 'traditions' and, was therefore not accepted by the Jewish people.

The old testament religions taught of a 'male' god. A patriarchal overseer who would throw you in hell for not following the rules set forth by the church.

Jesus taught us that God is equally male-female. He treated females as equals, not subserviants. He taught the 'female' aspects of the 'almighty'. These being grace and forgiveness. By ignoring the divine feminine, the world is denying half of God, and half of the truth.

As soon as Jesus died, Christianity took it's place among the religions, however, Constantine turned into a patriarchal religion, therefore, ignoring what Jesus had taught.

I believe ( just my opinion) that Christianity would have been a much purer religion ( like the Jewish religion) If it had remained pure to the teaching of Jesus, instead of falling back to the OT propaganda. Had Mary Magdelene been allowed to teach and preach openly, thi might have occurred, for she and his mother are who truly understood his teachings.

The rest of the apostles were heavily shrouded by the old ways, and could not really understand what Jesus was teaching. But Jesus was her to teach the Jews the other side of God. The side that the Jews still ignore today.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by EnchantedSpirit

The old testament religions taught of a 'male' god. A patriarchal overseer who would throw you in hell for not following the rules set forth by the church.

I'd like to know where this idea came from

He taught the 'female' aspects of the 'almighty'

this can also be found in the Torah

The rest of the apostles were heavily shrouded by the old ways, and could not really understand what Jesus was teaching.

And thats why Paul threw out the Laws of the Torah...because he was "shrouded by the old ways"

But Jesus was her to teach the Jews the other side of God. The side that the Jews still ignore today.

which the anti-semitic side?

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by jewscout

if you want to qualify Messianic Judaism as an actual form of judaism...most Messianic Jews i've met are actually Christians who like to dress and talk like jews

trust me it's not just MY opinion

Yeah, I have seen these crazies. I did not know that some people associate Messianic Jews only with Christians who dress like Jews. There was an ethnic Jewish family on my street where I grew up who were all Christians, they called themselves Messianic Jews. My teacher, Dr. Earle Ellis met a person whom he thought was a rabbi in Jerusalem who confessed belief in Jesus Christ but did not call himself a Christian, but a Messianic Jew. There is a church in my town that is full of Jews who believe in Jesus Christ and call themselves Messianic Jews, observing all of the Jewish festivals and praciticing the deitary laws.

[EnhancedSpirit]

Originally Posted by jewscout

I'd like to know where this idea came from

this can also be found in the Torah


And thats why Paul threw out the Laws of the Torah...because he was "shrouded by the old ways"

which the anti-semitic side?

All my 'ideas' come from observation. From history lessons, I have learned that the Jewish people of the past treated their women as property. Even today, women are considered inferior to men for top positions. Usually the main reason for this is because we are "too emotional", while on the other hand, men are logical.

But emotion is really the basis for all of God's teachings. Sins are acts that cause negative emotions. And in order to commune with God, you must be in a 'positive' place. Jesus taught about forgiveness and about God's grace. Yes, I understand these concepts are expressed in the Torah, or what others call the Old Testament, but very few men truly understand these concepts because they are logical thinkers, not emotional ones.

If the bible was not filled with a patriarchal undertone, God would not be referred to as 'he'. For God is neither male nor female. You cannot put human personalities on something that is not human. But we use our human perception to describe The One. History has been patriarchal, therefore, the perception used to describe the Almighty One has been one from a 'man's' point of view.

There is a commandment that says thou shalt not kill. Yet, men have somehow skirted around this and started wars in God's name.
Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek, and love your enemies. This concept is not one that would be easily accepted by men and their egos, so he was ignored by most. Those who were able to step out of their box and see from a new point of view, see Jesus was right. We must forgive those who tresspass against us, so that we also will be forgiven. But men took over the 'business' of Christianity, and it all sort of got tainted.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by EnhancedSpirit

All my 'ideas' come from observation. From history lessons, I have learned that the Jewish people of the past treated their women as property. Even today, women are considered inferior to men for top positions. Usually the main reason for this is because we are "too emotional", while on the other hand, men are logical.

then perhaps you should expand into other sources...

It's time to lay to rest the canard that Judaism views women as inferior to men. No one who reads the Bible seriously can conclude that Judaism considers women inferior to men.

Some examples:

1) Abraham had two children Isaac and Ishmael. As the boys matured, Sarah recognized that for Isaac to grow up properly, Ishmael would have to leave. "Throw Ishmael out of the house," she told Abraham. He didn't want to listen. Then G-d told Abraham: "Listen to the voice of your wife, Sarah, for she is a greater prophet than you."

2) Isaac and Rebecca had two children, Jacob and Esau. Isaac wanted to give the privileges of the firstborn to Esau. Rebecca recognized what Isaac didn't -- that Esau was depraved and power-mad. She ensured that the birthright went to Jacob. It was an act which saved the Jewish people.

3) In Egypt, the men were driven to despair by the bitterness of slavery and oppression. When the Egyptians started killing Jewish children, the men decided to separate from their wives -- rather than procreate just to watch their children die. "If we do that we're worse than Pharaoh," said the women. "Though they may kill us, we can never give up hope ourselves." The women encouraged their husbands to raise families, thereby perpetuating the Jewish people. Specifically, Miriam's heroism corrected the wrongful advice of her father Amram --head of the Sanhedrin -- and the result produced baby Moses.

4) When the Jews worshipped the Golden Calf in the desert, the women refused to participate.

5) When the 12 spies brought back word that the Land of Israel was populated by giants, the men cried and wanted to return to Egypt. The women did not. As a result, the men were punished with death in the desert; the women merited to enter the Land of Israel.

You simply cannot read this litany, and dozens of other examples year after year, and conclude that the Torah considers women inferior to men. On the contrary, women are consistently portrayed as more reliable than men in their judgment and devotion to G-d. As the Talmud says, women were created with binah yiteira -- an extra measure of intuitive understanding.

http://www.aish.com/societywork/wome...c_Judaism$.asp

Originally Posted by EnhancedSpirit

If the bible was not filled with a patriarchal undertone, God would not be referred to as 'he'.

There are masculine names of G-d and feminine ones. For example, the name Elokim usually associated with G-d's attribute of justice is masculine, while Shechinah, a name that evokes G-d's presence in a close and intimate way, is feminine...

In the Midrash, G-d is sometimes referred to as groom with the Jewish people as his bride and at other times (e.g., Friday night Sabbath prayer service) G-d is presented as bride.

http://www.aish.com/family/mensch/Is...r_a_Woman$.asp

[EnhancedSpirit]

You simply cannot read this litany, and dozens of other examples year after year, and conclude that the Torah considers women inferior to men. On the contrary, women are consistently portrayed as more reliable than men in their judgment and devotion to G-d. As the Talmud says, women were created with binah yiteira -- an extra measure of intuitive understanding.

Thank you so much for that, that is BEAUTIFUL. However, it seems that men ignored those verses for 1000's of years. Marriages were arranged where daughters were bought from their families. And when traveling, the women had to travel seperate from the men. And even here in the US there used to be a law that said that it was OK for men to beat their wives to keep them in line.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by EnhancedSpirit

Thank you so much for that, that is BEAUTIFUL. However, it seems that men ignored those verses for 1000's of years. Marriages were arranged where daughters were bought from their families. And when traveling, the women had to travel seperate from the men. And even here in the US there used to be a law that said that it was OK for men to beat their wives to keep them in line.

sexism is not an exclusively Jewish tradition it existed long before the jewish faith and was around afterwards...
when Jews were arguing the roles of women in society...christians were arguing over whether women even had souls.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by jt1970

Diffrent question, If you don't know that Jesus died for the sins of the world, will you be saved? Religion is about salvation right? How in the world are we saved?

oops missed this one too...
however i think this is a question best directed at Christians

but...

Religion is about salvation right?

unless your of certain sects of christianity...nope