Messianic Judaism (Jesus, Messiah, Torah, beliefs, churches)

[LeNinjaChic]

Maize has hit the nail on the head regarding MJ. I was seriously considering joining this movement and it was the first step in my deconversion.

Most MJ's do follow dietary laws as well as Sabbath and other Levitical laws. Other than that, they are nearly identical to Christianity, only eschewing the title of "Christian"

[standing_on_one_foot]

Hmm...they're mostly Christians who call themselves Jews. That's why a lot of Jews have trouble accepting them as Jewish. I think that, as unsure about the definitions as most Jews (myself included) seem to be, there's something of an agreement that once you've become Christian you've stopped being Jewish. I suppose it all comes down to how you define when someone's Jewish or not...and of course, that's an old problem and is a bit inherent in the whole religion (or is it a religion? no one ever seems quite sure). Heh, I've discussed this stuff with Messianic Jews, and about the most we can ever manage is to agree to disagree...

[Emishshaw]

Yeshuah himself is jewish and the King of the Jews. Being jewish believing in Meshiach is just that.
We do observe the Torah and believe that Yeshuah is the Meshiach. There are those that claim to be messinic jew but they compromise the instruction of the Most High, lukewarm, fence walkers, which are not true Messianic nor jewish for our Meshiach himself taught and kept Torah. Yeshuah teaches us to observe the commandments and to worship the one and only El Elyon (the Almighty). He does not teach us to break even the least of the commandments and we should not teach others to either. Of course we understand that the teacher is the Ruach (Spirit) from the Most High. Yeshuah did not deny the Most High and did not cease to be jewish just because he is Yeshuah Meshiach nor do we as jews have to cease being jews just because we believe in the Most High of Israel and Yeshuah Ha Meschiach who he sent.

Shalom
Emishshaw

[LeNinjaChic]

Originally Posted by Emishshaw

Yeshuah himself is jewish and the King of the Jews. Being jewish believing in Meshiach is just that.
We do observe the Torah and believe that Yeshuah is the Meshiach. There are those that claim to be messinic jew but they compromise the instruction of the Most High, lukewarm, fence walkers, which are not true Messianic nor jewish for our Meshiach himself taught and kept Torah. Yeshuah teaches us to observe the commandments and to worship the one and only El Elyon (the Almighty). He does not teach us to break even the least of the commandments and we should not teach others to either. Of course we understand that the teacher is the Ruach (Spirit) from the Most High. Yeshuah did not deny the Most High and did not cease to be jewish just because he is Yeshuah Meshiach nor do we as jews have to cease being jews just because we believe in the Most High of Israel and Yeshuah Ha Meschiach who he sent.

Shalom
Emishshaw

Shalom Emishshaw,

Do Messianic Jews believe in the concept/doctrine of the Trinity? I never was able to get a straight answer in all my seeking on that subject.

Thanks.

[standing_on_one_foot]

I suppose it all depends on how you define Christian, too. As I see it, it involves believing that Jesus is the Messiah, and all the stuff that goes along with that. Obviously, my opinion isn't the only one on the subject...

A question, Emishshaw...I'm assuming you're a Messianic Jew here, and it's something I keep forgetting to ask...what exactly do you believe the Messiah is? You know, what are the criteria, what's he supposed to do, etc?

[Holly]

Originally Posted by Rex_Admin

I here this term from time to time, what does it mean?

I'm not a Messianic Jew but I'm pretty sure that the term refers to someone who still considers themself to be a Jew but yet believes in Jesus as their Messiah. There's some more information in these links:

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionar...sianic+Judaism

http://www.religioustolerance.org/mess_jud.htm

[Gilad]

The whole Messianic movement is quite diverse. You have those that are Torah observant in the manner of the Orthodox Jews who believe in Jesus as the Mashiach but don't hold to the Trinity others that do hold to the Trinity but follow a Jewish style formulation of it. You have those that are like Reform Jews that keep some Jewish stuff as part of their belief. some groups are mainly of Jewish origin, others are a mixture of Jews and Goyim. The Messianic Israel lot are Goyim who believe they are Ephraim and keep alot of the mitzvot. These groups have a protestant influence wheras there are also Hebrew Catholics and Hebrew Orthodox Christian Jews especially in the Russian Orthodox Church. Amongst Hebrew Catholics there are those that are Torah Observant in the Orthodox Jewish manner but are loyal to Catholic teachings and the Pope to those who live as Goyim and all the range in between. In the French speaking world there is a hebrew Catholic movement and the Hebrew Catholic church in Israel is strongly influenced by them. In the English speaking world there is the Association of Hebrew Catholics founded by Father Elias Friedman who wrote "Jewish Identity" and Remnant of Israel founded by Father Arthur Klyber. The AHC puts our a magazine called "The Hebrew Catholic". the spanish speaking world in Latin America has the Catholics of Hebrew Tradition led by the Chief Rabbi Richard Gamboa and sem to be modelled on Reform Jewish customs and Messianic Jewish customs. In the orthodox Church mainly Jewish intellectuals converted under communism and follow the teachings of Vladimir Soloviev and Father Alexander Men. A book about their ideas is called "Doubly Chosen" by Judith Kornblatt Deustch.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Rex_Admin

..., what does it mean?

Christian Evangelicals who think Aramaic/Hebrew is really, really cool, and believe peppering their conversation with words like Yeshuah and Meshiach and (my personal favorite) El Elyon give their sermonettes more legitimacy.