Nevermore

[Gjallarhorn]

"A raven and a group of occultists walk into a bar. The Chaote asks, “My paradigm is built around the ideal of spontaneous freedom and the function of belief as a tool, but that paradigm itself is a constricting belief. What should I do to reconcile this?”

The raven responds, “Nevermore.”

The Thelemite asks, “My paradigm is built around the teachings of Aleister Crowley, and his assigned messenger, Aiwass; the example he set, and the wise religion he had left behind. His message was that all should become their own leaders, and not to align themselves with any means of authoritative dogma, how might I reconcile this?”

The raven responds, “Nevermore.”

The Enochian Ceremonialist asks, “My paradigm is built around the discoveries and revelations of John Dee and Edward Kelly, and the heavenly spheres they had uncovered. Angels guide my way, and sometimes demons grant me with favors. If I am to continue with this, shall I remain free in mind and thought given the assumption of the Judeo-Christian mythology which is inherent to my practice? Is there something more out there beyond this?”

The raven responds, “Nevermore.”

The Empty Shaman walks in and buys the raven a drink, “busy night?” The raven is silent. “You see, my paradigm is built around the felt presence of immediate experience, nothing more, and nothing less. Hey, I got one for you: why is a raven like a writing desk?”

The raven responds, “Because like all paradigms, they will keep repeating the same thing until they actually pick up the pen.”

- Liber Sigillum

Thoughts?

[jasonwill2]

Originally Posted by Gjallarhorn

Thoughts?

I think he's saying that people will repeat dogma until they write, or rather, think something for themselves.

edit: i take that back, it's more like it's glaring obvious.

[The Sum of Awe]

Originally Posted by jasonwill2

I think he's saying that people will repeat dogma until they write, or rather, think something for themselves.

edit: i take that back, it's more like it's glaring obvious.

I was going to say something like that.

[apophenia]

The Empty Shaman walks in and buys the raven a drink, “busy night?” The raven is silent. “You see, my paradigm is built around the felt presence of immediate experience, nothing more, and nothing less. Hey, I got one for you: why is a raven like a writing desk?”

The raven responds, “Because like all paradigms, they will keep repeating the same thing until they actually pick up the pen.”

1. The Shaman's words are contradictory because "the felt presence of immediate experience, nothing more, and nothing less" is not a paradigm, it is the absence of a paradigm.

2. See the color coding. This is a mess. In his reply, the raven may be using 'they' to refer to either 'a raven' or 'a writing desk'. This is not clear. Then there is the 'like all paradigms' phrase - to what does that refer ? The raven or the writing desk ? And then, either way there is no sensible meaning because a writing desk does not write, nor a raven use a pen.

The absence of a clear set of connections opens a world of ambiguity. This insinuates cleverness or wisdom by being not-quite-graspable. Hard to say if this is a disingenuous trick, a lack of language skill on behalf of the author, or the effects of drugs and alcohol.

[Orias]

Originally Posted by Gjallarhorn

Thoughts?

Bars are a social place.

The rest is up to you drunks to try and type out. I bet none of you can find the words desired to expound upon this, and neither can I.

But I guess I just did.

[Orias]

Originally Posted by apophenia

The Empty Shaman walks in and buys the raven a drink, “busy night?” The raven is silent. “You see, my paradigm is built around the felt presence of immediate experience, nothing more, and nothing less. Hey, I got one for you: why is a raven like a writing desk?”

The raven responds, “Because like all paradigms, they will keep repeating the same thing until they actually pick up the pen.”

1. The Shaman's words are contradictory because "the felt presence of immediate experience, nothing more, and nothing less" is not a paradigm, it is the absence of a paradigm.

2. See the color coding. This is a mess. In his reply, the raven may be using 'they' to refer to either 'a raven' or 'a writing desk'. This is not clear. Then there is the 'like all paradigms' phrase - to what does that refer ? The raven or the writing desk ? And then, either way there is no sensible meaning because a writing desk does not write, nor a raven use a pen.

The absence of a clear set of connections opens a world of ambiguity. This insinuates cleverness or wisdom by being not-quite-graspable. Hard to say if this is a disingenuous trick, a lack of language skill on behalf of the author, or the effects of drugs and alcohol.

It must of tricked you, because you cannot have the absence of a paradigm.

An example of that would be a rock, just a rock and nothing more or nothing less.

[apophenia]

Originally Posted by Orias

It must of tricked you, because you cannot have the absence of a paradigm.

An example of that would be a rock, just a rock and nothing more or nothing less.

Incorrect

[Orias]

I'm sure it is, if thats all you have to say.

I mean you yourself said its hard to grasp so who you trying to fool?