Biblical Universalism. (Jesus Christ, priests, ritual, moral, punishment)

[LoveNeverFails]

Originally Posted by uu_sage

I don't agree with every point of your interpretation of Universalism but I am a classical Universalist, and a classical Unitarian Christian in Unitarian Universalism.

In what ways do your beliefs differ from mine exactly? I'm honestly asking simply to obtain knowledge...I understand Unitarians to have a more humanistic view?

Thanks to all for contributing...please try to keep on topic...

Please do keep in mind that the OP is written by someone else at the link provided. While I agree with alot of it, I do differ a bit, where I do believe to unlock the true Christian experience one must confess Jesus as Lord and Savior. I believe in sharing the way to enlightenment through Him with as many as possible, for it is the best and straightest way to God, both in this life, and the next.

The Bible says many times over that someday, every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess to God. I believe that this won't be a forced submission, but a lost and broken soul finally submitting to his or her Creator and learning to abhor evil at last, and willfully turn from it and embrace, finally, the gift of life!

[uu_sage]

My beliefs differ from the articles in that I believe that sins are corrected in this life, that there is no hell at all, and all souls will come into final harmony with God at death, God is a unity, and Jesus is prophet. I also believe that God speaks through all the world's religions. Love Never Fails- Universalism and Unitarianism had merged to create the UUA in 1961. Unitarians wanted to move further away from its liberal Christian witness (unity of God, the humanity and prophet hood of Jesus) starting with the advent of humanism and Universalism on the other hand seeks to keep in contact with its liberal Christian witness even when new revelation comes about. Unitarians while non-creedal expressed their convictions in commonly held principles(values) but not common beliefs. They arrived at humanism by the way of agnosticism and atheism. Universalists while also non-creedal expressed their convictions in commonly held beliefs but allowed for great latitude in interpretation (for example, Winchester Profession, 1899 Principles, 1935/1953 Statement of Faith, the Griswald Williams Affirmation). Universalists arrived at humanism through their liberal Christianity. UUs to one extent or another are humanists whether or not we accept the label- because humanism affirms social justice, the worth and dignity of each person, the search of truth, viewing experience in light of reason. I am a proud member of the UU Christian Fellowship
God bless, hope this answers your questions.

Originally Posted by LoveNeverFails

In what ways do your beliefs differ from mine exactly? I'm honestly asking simply to obtain knowledge...I understand Unitarians to have a more humanistic view?

Thanks to all for contributing...please try to keep on topic...

Please do keep in mind that the OP is written by someone else at the link provided. While I agree with alot of it, I do differ a bit, where I do believe to unlock the true Christian experience one must confess Jesus as Lord and Savior. I believe in sharing the way to enlightenment through Him with as many as possible, for it is the best and straightest way to God, both in this life, and the next.

The Bible says many times over that someday, every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess to God. I believe that this won't be a forced submission, but a lost and broken soul finally submitting to his or her Creator and learning to abhor evil at last, and willfully turn from it and embrace, finally, the gift of life!

[LoveNeverFails]

Originally Posted by uu_sage

My beliefs differ from the articles in that I believe that sins are corrected in this life, that there is no hell at all, and all souls will come into final harmony with God at death, God is a unity, and Jesus is prophet. I also believe that God speaks through all the world's religions. Love Never Fails- Universalism and Unitarianism had merged to create the UUA in 1961. Unitarians wanted to move further away from its liberal Christian witness (unity of God, the humanity and prophet hood of Jesus) starting with the advent of humanism and Universalism on the other hand seeks to keep in contact with its liberal Christian witness even when new revelation comes about. Unitarians while non-creedal expressed their convictions in commonly held principles(values) but not common beliefs. They arrived at humanism by the way of agnosticism and atheism. Universalists while also non-creedal expressed their convictions in commonly held beliefs but allowed for great latitude in interpretation (for example, Winchester Profession, 1899 Principles, 1935/1953 Statement of Faith, the Griswald Williams Affirmation). Universalists arrived at humanism through their liberal Christianity. UUs to one extent or another are humanists whether or not we accept the label- because humanism affirms social justice, the worth and dignity of each person, the search of truth, viewing experience in light of reason. I am a proud member of the UU Christian Fellowship
God bless, hope this answers your questions.

Yes, I am quite aware of the union of Unitarianism and Universalism in 1961. I was raised in a non-denom, charismatic, protestant upbringing as a pastor's son and did not come to my current belief until somewhat recently, over the past couple of years, after a lifetime of cognative dissonence regarding my faith. I could not equate a God of love and infinite mercy with the traditional view of hell!

Thank God I have seen the light. There is actually quite a large movement today of a more Bible and Christ-centered wave of universalism. IMO, from the data I have seen and studied, the original message of Christ's sacrifice was warped by those with their own agendas, in large part by Constantine and St. Jerome. I have learned that the Majority of the early church was universalist! They believed, by studying the Greek and Hebrew, rather than the incorrect Latin text, in universal reconciliation.

Universalism, the Prevailing Doctrine of the Christian Church During its First Five Hundred Years

The lind above is an excellent link showing how Universalism through Christ Jesus was the prevailing doctrine in the Christian church for the first 500 years.

While I am a Christian, I also consider myself a humanist, as you have defined it here. Each of these qualities you have listed are the embodiment of true Christianity, IMHO.

Here are some excellent sites I love...

Christian universalism--Ultimate Reconcilation: The True "Good News" Gospel of the Bible

Christian-Universalism.com ~ Biblical Christian Universalism Index

Blessings to all...

[LoveNeverFails]

Oh, and I do believe in hell, but it is not some eternal torture chamber serving no purpose...

Hell is, IMHO of course, a place of learning and correction for those souls who depart this world having never achieved spiritual enlightenment, having never experienced remorse for cruelty, for anger, for not loving, for not forgiving...

When the words of Christ are translated correctly, he speaks of "age-abiding chastisement", not "eternal damnation". Hell is remedial. It exists so that those souls may finally learn to abhor evil, and to shun it, to willingly turn to God in repentance. Then the power of God will refine them, purify them...then God truly will become all in all. God will have perfect victory by destroying death and evil...

Hell is NOT literal pain and horrific tortures. It is a spiritual place, for spirits to learn lessons not learned in this life...

[LoveNeverFails]

Originally Posted by wizanda

Mar 7:11-13
(11) But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is an Offering (Corban), that is to say, a sacrifice (gift), by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
(12) And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
(13) Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Mat 10:34
(34) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Mat 27:6-10
(6) And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the Offering (treasury = Corban), because it is the price of blood.
(7) And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.
(8) Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.
(9) Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Zechariah (Jeremy) the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;
(10) And gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord appointed me.

Zec 11:7-14
(7) And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Grace (Beauty), and the other I called Inheritance (Bands); and I fed the flock.
(8) Three shepherds (Pharisees, Levites, and Sadducees) also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
(9) Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.
(10) And I took my staff, even Grace (Beauty), and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
(11) And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.
(12) And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
(13) And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
(14) Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Inheritance (Bands), that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

My grandfather was a Oneness Pentacostal...is that what you are referring to? Although I don't see what this has to do with the OP...

[Ringer]

Originally Posted by LoveNeverFails

Oh, and I do believe in hell, but it is not some eternal torture chamber serving no purpose...

Hell is, IMHO of course, a place of learning and correction for those souls who depart this world having never achieved spiritual enlightenment, having never experienced remorse for cruelty, for anger, for not loving, for not forgiving...

When the words of Christ are translated correctly, he speaks of "age-abiding chastisement", not "eternal damnation". Hell is remedial. It exists so that those souls may finally learn to abhor evil, and to shun it, to willingly turn to God in repentance. Then the power of God will refine them, purify them...then God truly will become all in all. God will have perfect victory by destroying death and evil...

Hell is NOT literal pain and horrific tortures. It is a spiritual place, for spirits to learn lessons not learned in this life...

Is there scripture that you have to back this up? Maybe something in the original Greek since, if I'm reading into this right, our current translations of the Bible in regards to Hell are not accurate?

[LoveNeverFails]

Originally Posted by jringer04

Is there scripture that you have to back this up? Maybe something in the original Greek since, if I'm reading into this right, our current translations of the Bible in regards to Hell are not accurate?

The case against Hell « The Religious Stuff..& all things are possible except skiing through a revolving door

To start with...

The King James Bible erroneously translates the word “Sheol” as Hell a total of 31 times in the Old Testament, thus setting a foundation for that doctrine in the New Testament as well as the majority of Bible translations to follow the KJV. Even so, most new translations have completely eliminated Hell from the Old Testament, as honest and better scholarship has demanded. The Jewish version of the Old Testament (the Tanakh) has no concept of Hell in it. The importance of this fact cannot be over-emphasized. If a doctrine does not appear as seed form in the books of the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms, it cannot fairly be taught as a major biblical doctrine, if indeed it can be taught as biblical at all!

Jesus warned the Jews many times of impending destruction, both nationally and individually. He used several different terms to refer to punishment/destruction, some of which were erroneously translated as the same word, “Hell” by Bible translators. We do not deny that God will indeed judge the whole world, nor do we wish to make light of His judgments. We are challenging the belief that His judgment on sin and unbelief is eternal torment/Hell and never-ending separation from God. Certainly, Jesus spent a lot of his ministry warning people to repent or reap the consequences, (particularly “Gehenna.”) But could we be reading more into His warnings than He originally intended?

If Hell is real, since some English translations use the word Hell for the Greek word “Gehenna,” in the New Testament, why didn’t this same place (Gehenna) get translated Hell in the many places where it appears in the Hebrew form “ga ben Hinnom” in the Old Testament?

So, regarding verses...

“…Just as the result of one trespass (Adam’s) was condemnation for all men , so also the result of one act of righteousness (Christ’s) was justification that brings life for all men . For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. ( Romans 5:18,19).

Any English major will tell you that the the same "the many", which is all of us, that is made sinners is the same "the many" (again all of us) being made righteous by one man. Also, the verses clearly states life to ALL men...

“Since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.” (1 Cor. 15:22)

Ditto this verse...the key word is "as", it directly connects the all who died in Adam to be the very same made alive in Christ. Again, we are all born into a sin nature with Adam...???

“For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe” (1 Timothy 4;10).

Amen and amen.

[Ringer]

Originally Posted by LoveNeverFails

The case against Hell « The Religious Stuff..& all things are possible except skiing through a revolving door

To start with...

The King James Bible erroneously translates the word “Sheol” as Hell a total of 31 times in the Old Testament, thus setting a foundation for that doctrine in the New Testament as well as the majority of Bible translations to follow the KJV. Even so, most new translations have completely eliminated Hell from the Old Testament, as honest and better scholarship has demanded. The Jewish version of the Old Testament (the Tanakh) has no concept of Hell in it. The importance of this fact cannot be over-emphasized. If a doctrine does not appear as seed form in the books of the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms, it cannot fairly be taught as a major biblical doctrine, if indeed it can be taught as biblical at all!

Jesus warned the Jews many times of impending destruction, both nationally and individually. He used several different terms to refer to punishment/destruction, some of which were erroneously translated as the same word, “Hell” by Bible translators. We do not deny that God will indeed judge the whole world, nor do we wish to make light of His judgments. We are challenging the belief that His judgment on sin and unbelief is eternal torment/Hell and never-ending separation from God. Certainly, Jesus spent a lot of his ministry warning people to repent or reap the consequences, (particularly “Gehenna.”) But could we be reading more into His warnings than He originally intended?

If Hell is real, since some English translations use the word Hell for the Greek word “Gehenna,” in the New Testament, why didn’t this same place (Gehenna) get translated Hell in the many places where it appears in the Hebrew form “ga ben Hinnom” in the Old Testament?

So, regarding verses...

“…Just as the result of one trespass (Adam’s) was condemnation for all men , so also the result of one act of righteousness (Christ’s) was justification that brings life for all men . For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. ( Romans 5:18,19).

Any English major will tell you that the the same "the many", which is all of us, that is made sinners is the same "the many" (again all of us) being made righteous by one man. Also, the verses clearly states life to ALL men...

“Since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.” (1 Cor. 15:22)

Ditto this verse...the key word is "as", it directly connects the all who died in Adam to be the very same made alive in Christ. Again, we are all born into a sin nature with Adam...???

“For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe” (1 Timothy 4;10).

Amen and amen.

I just read your comments and didn't get a chance to go to that link. What about the statements about, "Hell is remedial. It exists so that those souls may finally learn to abhor evil, and to shun it, to willingly turn to God in repentance. Then the power of God will refine them, purify them...". Is this based on any type of doctrine or is that also part of your opinion? Thanks.