Confusion says.. (testimony, Deuteronomy, doctrine, church, Revelation)

[Andra130]

No that is not a typo…

I have been living in a perpetual state of confusion about God and religion for the last 8 or so years. I was raised Mormon in Northern Utah but I have been more or less inactive since I was 16. I am wondering why if the church is sooo true that I have been living in a state of limbo for so long? This applies to all other religions as well, nothing seems “true” to me. I am beseeching any one out there that either is or was involved with the Mormon Church to engage in amicable discussion. I have no intentions of “bible bashing” or debating but to employ a question / answer session.

First question:

Mormons propose that to know of the truthfulness of the church they must pray and receive a testimony. However, Deuteronomy 18:22 states:

22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

“An example of a close-dated unconditional prophecy is preserved in Doctrine and Covenants Section 84. In this revelation given on September 22 and 23, 1832, Joseph Smith foretold of an LDS temple to be built in Independence, Missouri. The prophecy specifies that the city of "New Jerusalem" including the temple was to be constructed, "beginning at the temple lot which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri" (verse 3). Joseph Smith placed a time limit on the new temple saying, "which temple shall be reared in this generation. For verily this generation shall not all pass away.” (Verses 4 and 5). The generation of 1832 has passed away.”

This seems to be something that “followed not”.

Thoughts, comments, concerns???

[Scuba Pete]

A "Jack Mormon" eh???

While not a Mormon, my sister was and I have dealt with a few while up in Idaho. I do think there are a few LDSers here on the board.

[DeepShadow]

From the Doctrine and Covenants Study Manual:

Pres Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: "There have been various interpretations of the meaning of a generation. It is held by some that a generation is one hundred years; by others that it is one hundred and twenty years; by others that a generation as expressed in this and other scriptures has reference to a period of time which is indefinite. The Savior said: 'An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign.'[Matt. 12: 39, emphasis mine--DS] This did not have reference to a period of years, but to a period of wickedness. A generation may mean the time of this present dispensation." (Church History and Modern Revelation, 1:337)

[SoyLeche]

I think about the best advice I can give you is the same that Christ gave:

"If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, wheter it be of God, or whether I speak of myself" - John 7:17 (KJV)

Maybe it's a little simplistic, but it really is the best way.

Anyway, on to the question. The only help I have there is to point out that Christ made a similar statement using that term, after describing what appears to be the end of the world. He says:

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" - Matt 24:34 (KJV)

[michel]

Hi SoyLeche, Namaste.

Welcome to the forum!

You might like to have a look at :- Articles for New Members ; from there, there is a link to the forum rules, which you ought to see.

Hope you enjoy the forum, and happy posting!

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Andra130

No that is not a typo…

I have been living in a perpetual state of confusion about God and religion for the last 8 or so years. I was raised Mormon in Northern Utah but I have been more or less inactive since I was 16. I am wondering why if the church is sooo true that I have been living in a state of limbo for so long? This applies to all other religions as well, nothing seems “true” to me. I am beseeching any one out there that either is or was involved with the Mormon Church to engage in amicable discussion. I have no intentions of “bible bashing” or debating but to employ a question / answer session.

Hi, Andra.

Katzpur (Kathryn) here. Happy to oblige. My sister was also raised LDS here in Salt Lake, and has been completely inactive since she was about 18. (She is now 51.) Several years ago, she told me that she considers herself to be an agnostic. My sister and I are very close in spite of this significant difference of opinion. You can rest assured that any conversations between the two of us will be as amicable as any between my sister and me would be. So I hope we can have some great discussions.

First question:

Mormons propose that to know of the truthfulness of the church they must pray and receive a testimony. However, Deuteronomy 18:22 states:

22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

“An example of a close-dated unconditional prophecy is preserved in Doctrine and Covenants Section 84. In this revelation given on September 22 and 23, 1832, Joseph Smith foretold of an LDS temple to be built in Independence, Missouri. The prophecy specifies that the city of "New Jerusalem" including the temple was to be constructed, "beginning at the temple lot which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri" (verse 3). Joseph Smith placed a time limit on the new temple saying, "which temple shall be reared in this generation. For verily this generation shall not all pass away.” (Verses 4 and 5). The generation of 1832 has passed away.”

This seems to be something that “followed not”.

Since several other posters have already responded to this question, there isn't a great deal left for me to say. I'll just a couple of additional thoughts for you to consider:

God has the right to change His mind, so to speak, depending upon the response of the people to a prophesy. As much of a "cop-out" as that may appear to be, this prophesy did not go unfulfilled any more than did the prophet Jonah's prophesy of Ninevah's destruction. As you may know, he prophesied that God would destroy Ninevah because it was so wicked, and there were no conditions specified. Following this prophesy, the people repented. Consequently God did not destroy it. Jonah, incidentally, was pretty bent out of shape because of this, since he thought this would reflect negatively on his ability to prophesy. Building a temple is a privilege. Many of the saints during that period of time were not being obedient to God's commandments. It is possible, therefore, that He withdrew the privilege of building a temple from them.

Here's another possibly perspective: Doctrine and Covenants 84 can also be viewed as a command rather than prophecy because of its use of the word "shall." Think of the Ten Commandments, particularly those such as "Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest." In the scriptures, "shall" or "shalt" often conveys a commandment or an imperative instruction and not a prophesy at all. So, just as the Lord was not prophesying that man would rest on the seventh day, but was commanding him to do so, it is possible that the Lord may have been saying, "You are to build a temple in Missouri in the near future." I'm not saying that this is conclusively the case, only that (based upon other scriptures) it may be.

I hope that helps.

Kathryn