Taoist Mormon ??? does it work? (Jesus, moral, punishment, Earth)

[idea]

from link

Taoism Overview

Taoism or Daoism (from Chinese 道, in pinyin dào) is usually described as an Asian philosophy and religion, though it is also said to be neither but rather a "way of life".

I love some of these ideas, but would never give up my current faith. What is the difference between a "philosophy" and a "religion".? Can you have a religion, and also keep some other things as a "philosophy"? - if the two do not contradict one another of course...? I wonder what other LDS members would think of a "Taoist Mormon"... there are Mormons who are also Masons, Mormons who are also Tran humanists, I think these are still members in good standing with temple recommends etc... just curious...

Taoism places emphasis upon individual freedom and spontaneity, non-interventionist government and social primitivism and ideas of self-transformation.

I think these are all in line with Christian thought - correct?

Taoist philosophy

The Way begat One (the lifeforce), which in turn begat Two (Yin and Yang), finally producing the entirety of the world as we know it (the 10,000 things). The Way is therefore circular, acting upon itself to renew the cycle of life and death in harmony with nature.

Heavenly Father begat Jesus, opposition in all things or there is no existence... take this part as a parable...

Act in accordance with nature, and with finesse rather than force.

= respect the agency of others, no force.

One's mental activities should be stilled or allowed to dissipate until one finds a deeper source for guiding one's interaction with the universe (see 'wu wei' below).

deeper source being the Holy Spirit

The next is what I really like about Taoism...

Desire hinders one's ability to understand The Way, and tempering desire breeds contentment. Taoists believe that when one desire is satisfied, another, more ambitious desire will simply spring up to replace it. In essence, most Taoists feel that life should be appreciated as it is, rather than forced to be something it is not. Ideally, one should not desire anything, not even non-desire.

If there is a desire, it would be "together forever"... I think desiring "togetherness" would be OK, but desiring to “not be alone” is a selfish desire, better to exist together not out of despirtaion of not wanting to be alone, but out of joy of just being together, and if they do not want to be together, that is fine too – we don’t need to control anyone or force anyone into something, it all has to be freely unforced way of being… I think most desires and wants are a burden, to be content with what God has blessed us with - just be content and not try to force our will on anything, not my will but thine... and be perfectly at ease - even relieved - in giving up our will and desires to a higher power...

from another thread....
Matt 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

If you are willing to lose your life - not make personal wants and needs the aim or the end, then you can see others for who they really are, an entire new view opens up... (you cannot really honestly see others if all you are thinking about is "what can they do for me?" or "what are they trying to get out of me?" If you can stop worrying about getting/giving to others, just freely give / freely receive without making that the end goal.... then you can find yourself.

Matt 9: 8 freely ye have received, freely give.

Freely give – not desiring anything in return, just be free.

I think the heavy burden we carry around with us is our own personal wants and needs....

Matt 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Oneness: By realizing that all things (including ourselves) are interdependent and constantly redefined as circumstances change, we come to see all things as they are, and ourselves as a simple part of the current moment. This understanding of oneness leads us to an appreciation of life's events and our place within them as simple miraculous moments which "simply are".

Acts 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

Dualism, the opposition and combination of the Universe's two basic principles of Yin and Yang is a large part of the basic philosophy. Some of the common associations with Yang and Yin, respectively, are: male and female, light and dark, forcing and yielding, action and stillness. Taoists believe that neither side is more important or better than the other; indeed, neither can exist without the other, as they are equal aspects of the whole. They flow into each other in constant motion. They complete each other in perfect balance.

2 Nephi 2: 11 For it must needs be, that there is an aopposition in all things. If not so, my first-born in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.
12 Wherefore, it must needs have been created for a thing of naught; wherefore there would have been no purpose in the end of its creation. Wherefore, this thing must needs destroy the wisdom of God and his eternal purposes, and also the power, and the mercy, and the justice of God.
13 And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.

agree – existence requires opposition, prefer other though…. to each his own, we will all end up where we choose... it would not be heaven for any loving person if anyone else was discontent with where they end up right?

Wu Wei

Much of the essence of Tao is in the art of wu wei (action through inaction). However, this does not mean, "sit doing nothing and wait for everything to fall into your lap". It describes a practice of accomplishing things through minimal action. By studying the nature of life, you can affect it in the easiest and least disruptive way (using finesse rather than force). The practice of working with the stream rather than against it is an illustration; one progresses the most not by struggling against the stream and thrashing about, but by remaining still and letting the stream do all the work.

I think that staying still is going against and disrupting the stream. Rather than do nothing, I would say the best approach is not to “go against the flow” or to “stand still (which is still going against the flow)” but instead “go with the flow”. Jump in, immerse yourself, join with the water and swim together in the same direction. Of course, not just go with any flow, find a stream that will lead you to the ocean rather than a bog – speaking as a parable of course…

[idea]

Wu Wei works once we trust our human "design," which is perfectly suited for our place within nature. In other words, by trusting our nature rather than our mental contrivances, we can find contentment without a life of constant striving against forces real and imagined.

I would say trust God who has perfectly placed us with the right people at the right place in time. To trust our conscious and the Spirit to guide us rather than rationalizing and over-explaining and muddling simple actions into some imagined complex ordeal – just follow direction without worrying about what hassles the direction may cause you. It is only a hassle if you put your own desires/needs ahead of what is really important. Release personal desires, stop fighting the current, go with God’s flow, experience the freedom of not fighting against the water anymore… unburden yourself

John 8: 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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So – to those who are Taoists, does the above match your philosophy or does adding Mormon stuff alter it too much to really call it Taoism anymore?

To those who are LDS – would you take away the temple recommend of a member with the above “Philosophies”? What would be pushing the limits for you in terms of reading/following the teachings of another group?

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I was looking through my old books, trying to find my copy of the Tao Te Ching, and ran across some Buddhism stuff – Prajnaparamita Heart Sutra with commentaries –
Reading this again, now with an LDS perspective, I still find it beautiful, and find a lot of truth in it…

“The Bodhisattva Avalokita, while moving in the deep course of Perfect Understanding, shed light on the five skandhas and found them equally empty”

commentary of “found them empty” you have to also ask “empty of what?” the answer “They are empty of a separate self.” It is a description of what “together” really is…

quote:

If you are a poet, you will see clearly that there is a cloud floating in this sheet of paper. Without a cloud, there will be no rain; without rain, the trees cannot grow; and without trees, we cannot make paper. If we look even more deeply, we can see the sunshine, the logger who cut the tree, the wheat that became his cread, and the logger’s father and mother. Without all of these things, this sheet of paper cannot exist. In fact, we cannot point to one thing that is not here-time, space, the earth, the rain, the minerals in the soil, the sunshine, the cloud, the river, the heat, the mind. Everything co-exists with this sheet of paper. So we can say that the cloud and the paper “inter-are”. We cannot just be by ourselves alone; we have to inter-be with every other thing.”
…
When Avalokita says that our sheet of paper is empty, he means it is empty of a separate, independent existence. It cannot just be by itself. It has to interbe with the sunshine, the cloud, the forest, the logger, the mind, and everything else. It is empty of a separate self. But, empty of a separate self means full of everything.

I just thought that was so beautiful, poetic – and I think describes the unity and togetherness we seek to find with one another very well – what do you think?

And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

Matt 16: 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

We often talk of being “filled” with the spirit of God.
Ex 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

I never thought that before we can be “filled” we first have to empty our vessel – to make room. You cannot fill a cup that is already full. You empty out the original contents, to make room for new contents. We have to get rid of something – get rid of everything…

What do we get rid of? We rid ourself of ourself – get rid of the natural man, the natural man being our original self, our wants, our needs, our desires, then become reborn – a new creation, filled with Love for those around us. Avalokita is right in encouraging us to empty ourself - in order to be filled with "everything"

PS - why did my title change? I wanted to change my title to "bodhisattva" - Bodhi = awake, Sattva = living being, bodhisattva means an awakened being. Perhaps I will change my name from idea to bodhisattva - although some days I am more awake than others

[madhatter85]

Idea, i think it is fascinating of course.

there is a quote by the First presidency 15th February 1978

The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals

[idea]

Originally Posted by madhatter85

Idea, i think it is fascinating of course.

there is a quote by the First presidency 15th February 1978

Thanks for the quote. I just love the poetry of some of their teachings, would it be weird for me to follow some of their meditation practices do you think?

Tai Chi means "the ultimate" it means improving and progressing towards the unlimited = eternal progression... I used to go to a non-LDS temple and do tai Chi, (I am a convert) I miss it...

[madhatter85]

Originally Posted by idea

Thanks for the quote. I just love the poetry of some of their teachings, would it be weird for me to follow some of their meditation practices do you think?

Tai Chi means "the ultimate" it means improving and progressing towards the unlimited = eternal progression... I used to go to a non-LDS temple and do tai Chi, (I am a convert) I miss it...

you know, I would probably meditate in the closest LDS Temple to meditate. I can guarentee you it will be way better than going to a non-lds temple.

doing Tai Chi you can do in the comfort of your own home as it should be an sanctuary unto yourself as well.

[Somkid]

The Tao can be practiced by anyone as long as it is practiced as the philosophy it was intended as. I don't see any conflicts with Christianity, I'm a Buddhist/Taoist, although Buddhism and Taoism are a closer match the Tao is only that which is natural in being.

[idea]

Originally Posted by madhatter85

you know, I would probably meditate in the closest LDS Temple to meditate. I can guarentee you it will be way better than going to a non-lds temple.

doing Tai Chi you can do in the comfort of your own home as it should be an sanctuary unto yourself as well.

So you think it is permissible to read and meditate as long as I do not meet with another religious group? (or if I meet with other Taoist/Buddhist LDS members ) I think that is what they ask in the interview - something about meeting or affiliating with another relig group? Can't remember the exact wording...

Originally Posted by Somkid

The Tao can be practiced by anyone as long as it is practiced as the philosophy it was intended as. I don't see any conflicts with Christianity, I'm a Buddhist/Taoist, although Buddhism and Taoism are a closer match the Tao is only that which is natural in being.

So what is your definition of the “philosophy it was intended to be”. Another thing I love about you guys, you are open minded and willing to change, for…

“Understanding is like water flowing in a stream. Wisdom and knowledge are solid and can block our understanding. In Buddhism knowledge is regarded as an obstacle for understanding. If we take something to be the truth, we may cling to it so much that even if the truth comes and knocks at our door, we won’t want to let it in. We have to be able to transcend our previous knowledge the way we climb up a ladder. If we are on the fifth rung and think that we are very high, there is no hope for us to stop up to the sixth. We must learn to transcend our own views.”

I think it is a philosophy of being flexible and willing to journey, not one of setting anything down in stone.... meaning just about anything goes, right?