Sorry, I know you hate this subject, but... (Jesus, priest)

[Halcyon]

...it's something I don't understand, still, maybe I'm just thick..

Why did God allow polygamy in the LDS Church to begin with, then disallow it until a future time if He knew that the world was not ready for polygamy yet?

In other words, why not keep the polygamy teaching to himself until the world was ready for it (via his omniscience) rather than briefly giving it then taking it away again?

[Scott C.]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

...it's something I don't understand, still, maybe I'm just thick..

Why did God allow polygamy in the LDS Church to begin with, then disallow it until a future time if He knew that the world was not ready for polygamy yet?

In other words, why not keep the polygamy teaching to himself until the world was ready for it (via his omniscience) rather than briefly giving it then taking it away again?

I can't speak for the Lord on the subject. I believe it served a divine purpose for the time it was practiced. It served as a huge trial of faith and a refiner's fire for those who were asked to live it, including Joseph Smith. I believe it made the church members stronger, having demonstrated their obedience to God and being willing to suffer persecution as a result. I would imagine that God raised up offspring through certain lineages as He wanted, but I would not be able to specifically identify such. It was a tough time and its tough for people to understand, including many faithful LDS today. But, I believe it was a divine decree which was followed by good people (not perfect, but good).

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

...it's something I don't understand, still, maybe I'm just thick..

Why did God allow polygamy in the LDS Church to begin with, then disallow it until a future time if He knew that the world was not ready for polygamy yet?

In other words, why not keep the polygamy teaching to himself until the world was ready for it (via his omniscience) rather than briefly giving it then taking it away again?

Polygamy was instituted briefly for what we believe was a divine purpose. At the time the early Latter-day Saints began to practice it, they were living in the Great Basin, in what is now Utah. Utah was not then part of the United States, and there were no federal laws against polygamy. Had the practice not be discontinued when it was, it is almost certain that the Church would not have survived. I believe that the practice was repealed in order that the Church could survive, and for no other reason. I had to teach a Sunday School lesson to a class of new converts to Mormonism several months back. I'll post that lesson and, if you have the patience to read through it all the way, I'm sure you'll have a better understanding of the subject.

[Katzpur]

Part 1 of 2:

Today, we’re going to talk about the single most difficult of all the doctrines of the restored gospel for members of the Church to accept as divinely inspired. Though this doctrine is no longer required of us, it continues to be misunderstood by those on the outside looking in. It’s a source of controversy that simply will not go away. What would that doctrine be? Plural marriage or polygamy.

While working on the translation of the Bible in the 1831, Joseph Smith became troubled about the fact that so many of the Old Testament prophets had more than one wife. As he had learned to do many years earlier, He took his concerns to the Lord. In response to his prayer, the Lord told him that at certain times and for specific purposes, He had sanctioned plural marriage. He also told Joseph that He would continue to authorize men to take more than one wife in the future, and that some of the Latter-day Saints would be directed to do so. Joseph told only a few of his closest friends and associates about his revelation during the next twelve years. He finally dictated it to William Clayton in 1843, and it would be another nine years before it would be made official.

Before we talk about the history of plural marriage in the Church, let’s talk about the principle itself. In order for plural marriage to be acceptable to the Lord, it must be sanctioned by the Lord. The Book of Mormon clearly indicates that monogamy is intended by God to be the norm. Jacob 2:27 states, “For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife…” Jacob 2:30, however, makes an exception to this general rule. “For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.” We learn from this verse why, when the Lord does sanction plural marriage, He does so. It is for no other reason than to increase the posterity of righteous men. Finally, the practice is to be entered into under the direction of a prophet of God. Men were called to enter into plural marriage; it was not their decision, but God’s.

In August of 1852, a special conference was held in the Old Tabernacle on Temple Square. On the second day of the conference, an announcement of a new doctrine was given by Orson Pratt. Obviously, the concept of plural marriage was not completely unknown to the general membership of the Church, even though very few individuals were actively practicing it at that time. One of the main concerns that Orson Pratt addressed was the legality of the practice in the United States. He reminded the congregation that “the constitution gives the privilege to all the inhabitants of this country, of the free exercise of their religious notions, and the freedom of their faith, and the practice of it. Then, if it can be proven… that the Latter-day Saints have actually embraced, as a part and portion of their religion, the doctrine of a plurality of wives, it is constitutional. And should there ever be laws enacted by this government to restrict them from the free exercise of this part of their religion, such laws must be unconstitutional.”

He continued by providing scriptural support for the doctrine (I suppose from the Old Testament), and explained that marriage was ordained of God as the means by which spirits could obtain mortal bodies, and that through plural marriage, righteous priesthood holders could raise up a large progeny to the Lord. Brigham Young then spoke, and recounted the history behind the revelation given to Joseph Smith years earlier. Finally, the revelation itself was read to the congregation for their sustaining vote.

Well, as isolated as Salt Lake City may have been from the rest of the country back in 1852, news concerning the Mormons always did seem to travel quickly. Anticipating a lot of backlash from the rest of the country to this announcement, Brigham Young called four of the Church’s most faithful and articulate leaders to move to four of the nation’s largest cities and to launch newspapers that would explain and justify “celestial marriage” as well as other LDS doctrines. The four, Orson Pratt, Erastus Snow, George Q. Cannon and John Taylor did as they were asked, moving to Washington D.C., St. Louis, San Francisco and New York City respectively, where they began to publish four separate newspapers.

Elder John Taylor’s newspaper in New York City, was entitled, “The Mormon.” Here is a picture of the masthead of that newspaper. It occupied nearly half of the front page. Let’s put on our marketing or PR hats for a minute. What is your first impression of this masthead? What thoughts or feelings do the images on it evoke? We have an American flag, for starters, a beehive, representing the people of the Utah territory, an eagle – also a good symbol of the United States – and a couple of scrolls under the eagle’s outstretched wings. The one on the right, over Joseph Smith’s signature, says, “Given by inspiration of God.” The one on the left, over Brigham Young’s signature is the “Mormon Creed.” Did you know we had a creed? No? Well now you do. This scroll says, “Mormon Creed: Mind you own business.” You don’t get much more to the point that that. Probably the only person who could have said it even better would have been J. Golden Kimball. He would have probably inserted one other word in between “own” and “business.”

Despite the efforts of the Church leadership to clarify the doctrine, to explain rationale behind its practice and to point out that it was, in fact, not illegal, Americans from all religious backgrounds united against the Latter-day Saints. Anti-Mormon literature exposing “the truth” about polygamy and the degradation of Mormon women was everywhere. Missionaries abroad were often attacked by angry mobs; several here in the United States were murdered. For the next thirty years, a series of anti-polygamy laws were sponsored in the United States Congress, but most of them failed to pass. The Morill Anti-Bigamy Act, however, was signed into law in 1862 by Abraham Lincoln (who, all of a sudden, no longer ranks very high on my list of favorite U.S. Presidents!) Although this act banned plural marriage, since nobody had bothered allocating any funds to actually enforce it, this law ultimately had very little effect on the Saints.

In 1882, Congress passed the Edmunds Act, which declared polygamy to be a felony. The law made it impossible for anyone living in a polygamous family to hold public office, to serve on a jury or to vote. But that wasn’t all. It wasn’t just the civil rights of polygamist members of the Church that were affected, but the civil rights of all members of the Church who believed in the doctrine of plural marriage, regardless of whether or not they were participating in it. Adulterers and fornicators, on the other hand, had no such penalties applied and did not lose their rights. The Edmunds-Tucker Act, which was signed into law five years later (1887) effectively imposed fines of up to $800 and imprisonment of up to five years for anyone convicted of practicing polygamy. It dissolved the corporation of the church and directed the federal government to confiscate Church property in excess of $50,000.

[Katzpur]

Part 2 of 2

This was one of the most difficult periods of time in Church history. Many LDS men and some women were forced to go underground to avoid arrest. Code words were devised so that polygamist families could be warned by telegraph when federal officials were on their way to Utah. Polygamous Latter-day Saints lived in fear of being exposed. While many who were caught and convicted were sent to Utah’s territorial penitentiary (which stood at the northwest corner of what is now Sugarhouse Park), some were sent to out-of-state prisons as far away as Detroit and there served out their sentences. It goes without saying that life in prison must have been pretty horrible, but it wasn’t just the prisoners who suffered. Without a means of support, not one wife and her children, but several wives and many children were left behind to live in poverty. By the end of the 1880s, Utah’s economy, as well as the family life and social structure of the Latter-day Saints had been severely affected.

Considering the obsession the United States government had with legislating the morality of the Latter-day Saints, it’s not surprising that most people today have a vastly exaggerated view of how extensive the practice of plural marriage really was. What percentage of LDS men actually had more than one wife? About 5%. Not a lot. As a matter of fact, taking into account the entire membership of the Church, only 20% or so were living in polygamous families. This, of course, includes all of the woman and children of the polygamous men.

Interestingly enough, most of the LDS women who were involved in polygamy were not opposed to it at all. While there were undoubtedly challenges associated with the practice, Latter-day Saint women found that, in some ways, it actually liberated them. With other wives to share the work at home, many women took advantage of the freedom to pursue vocations and education. Three of Brigham Young’s wives, for instance, studied medicine and helped found a hospital.

What about divorce among polygamous Latter-day Saints? Well, it was discouraged, just as divorce discouraged today. However, Brigham Young allowed polygamous wives to divorce their husbands if they believed they were being neglected or abused. Polygamous men who wanted out of a marriage contract, on the other hand, were generally told to hang in there and try harder.

Plural marriage had been practiced openly during most of Brigham Young’s administration. It had continued throughout John Taylor’s administration. After John Taylor’s death, in 1887, the keys of authority were held for two years by the Quorum of the Twelve. Finally, Wilford Woodruff, was sustained as the fourth President of the Church. During his tenure as Prophet, the political crusade against the Church continued to intensify. Within just a few short months after he was sustained, Wilford Woodruff came to the undeniable conclusion that, this time, the Church was literally going to be destroyed. After surviving nearly sixty years of persecution, it was essentially going to be wiped off the face of the earth. It was one thing to fight the mobs. It was quite another to fight the Feds.

President Woodruff prayed; the Twelve prayed. And finally the answer came. The time had come for plural marriage, as an earthly practice, to come to an end. On September 24, 1890, the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve sustained a document that came to be known as the Manifesto. It was approved by the membership of the Church a couple of weeks later at the October General Conference. Between 1890 and 1904, some members of the Church continued to practice polygamy in both Canada and Mexico since the Manifesto had only forbidden illegal marriages, and there were no laws against it north or south of the border. In 1904, a second manifesto was issued by President Joseph F. Smith, prohibiting plural marriage by Church members anywhere in the world. And of course today, any member of the Church found to be practicing polygamy is excommunicated from the Church. The practice of plural marriage has been discontinued. The principle of plural marriage is, however, eternal in nature. We have never stopped believing in the principle. Anyone who has ever talked to a non-Mormon about President Woodruff’s revelation has heard the same criticism, that being that he simply caved under pressure, that there was no such thing as a “revelation.” Here’s what President Woodruff had to say about it, after his revelation had been accepted by the Church:

“The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter. The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue – to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples… the imprisonment of the First Presidency and [the] Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law?…

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it… all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign… many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us…. This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but… I want to say this: I [would] have let all the temple go out of our hands; I [would] have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do.”

I’m grateful that plural marriage is no longer practiced, as I’m sure everybody in the room is. But I’m even more grateful that it was once practiced. The Lord accomplished what He wanted to accomplish by authorizing it for a period of time. Lastly, I’m grateful that Wilford Woodruff had the faith to rely on the Lord and listen to Him when He told him it was time to stop. If he hadn’t, we wouldn’t be members of the Church today.

[whereismynotecard]

God is a silly guy. He loves trying things out on us, because we are like his babies, but also like his experimental rats... He's such a weirdo... that guy......

[OutOfTime]

ur assuming that that religion is through God. for all we know, it could've been man-invented. it did originate from a man named joseph smith who they consider as a prophet basically but several religions say that jesus was the last prophet or mohammed etc. so he may have been a false prophet.

some religions that believe in polygamy say that god allows it with marriage so that men don't cheat on their wives. makes sense, if you have more than one wife than you probably would be less likely to cheat on them.

i dont think God's that weird. but assuming he did exist (i think he does) then the religions he's sent have been changed by humans so it's a distrust in humans, not god.