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#1
05-08-2007, 01:08 PM
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LDS Article of Faith #2 : Sins and Adam's Transgressions
Currently there is a debate thread that is getting no where, so I thought I would make threads that would help inform and be of good discussion to anyone who had questions. This is #2 of the Article of Faith of the LDS Church "2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression. Any questions?  
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#2
05-08-2007, 06:37 PM
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but I guess it wouldn't hurt to elaborate (since you started this thread in the LDS DIR forum)...Simply stated, this Article of Faith states that God will not hold one person responsible for someone else's sins. To me, it is inconceivable that a loving Father in Heaven would do otherwise. We as Latter-day Saints believe that, as a result of the Fall of Adam, two kinds of death came into the world: a physical death and a spiritual death. According to LDS doctrine, prior to their transgression, Adam and Eve had physical but immortal bodies. They could neither die (i.e. physically) nor could they procreate. They were spiritually innocent and childlike. As such, they enjoyed the presence of God, their Father in Heaven. They literally walked and talked with Him. God gave Adam and Eve two commandments. One was a "thou shalt," and the other a "thou shalt not." First, He told them to multiply and replenish the Earth. Second, He forbade them from eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and told them that, should they disobey that commandment, they would "surely die." He then allowed Lucifer (now known as Satan) to tempt them with the promise that it was only by eating the forbidden fruit that they could become like their Father in Heaven. Convinced by Satan that this disobedience would be to her advantage, Eve gave in to temptation first. Having eaten of the fruit, the purpose of God's plan for her and Adam took on a new dimension and she approached Adam with the hard fact: She had disobeyed God and would be cast out of Eden, leaving Adam there alone. Being separated, they would be unable to obey God's commandment to multipy and replenish the Earth. Realizing that she was right in this, Adam too ate of the fruit. By eating of the forbidden fruit, Adam and Eve came to understand that there must be opposition in all things. Had they never tasted it, they would have never been able to appreciate all the blessings they had enjoyed in Eden. Without darkness, they would not have known light. Without sickness, they would not have recognized good health. Without sorrow, joy would have been meaningless. Now that they understood these things, they would be held accountable for all future decisions they would make. God, however, had warned them not to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and had told them what the consequences of disobedience would be. As He had said would be the case, their bodies were transformed from the immortal to the mortal, meaning that they were for the first time subject to disease, injury, and physical death. They also were made capable of creating new life, thereby enabling them to fulfill the commandment to multiply and replenish the Earth. In addition to becoming subject to physical death, they also experienced a more immediate spiritual death. They were cast out of Eden and were no longer able to enjoy the presence of God. What's more, both of these deaths -- the physical and the spiritual -- would be permanent, or at least would have been had God not known in advance what they would do when given their agency (free will). In His great love and wisdom, He had prepared a means by which the permanance of both their physical and spiritual deaths might be overcome. He had, long before even placing them in Eden, designated His Only Begotten Son to be born into the world, to live among mankind and to offer Himself as a sinless sacrifice to atone not only for their sins, but for the sins of all their posterity for thousands of years to come. All of their descendents would be born pure and clean, but inheriting their first parents' mortal nature. As an act of grace, He would not hold little children responsible for their actions until they had reached an age where they were capable of understanding the difference between right and wrong. But because, as the Book of Mormon states, "the natural man is an enemy to God," once that age of accountability has been reached, we will all sin. None of us will be capable of resisting the temptation at some point in time to do wrong. Jesus Christ's Atonement would provide unconditional salvation from the bonds of death. Because He rose again on the third day following His crucifixion, there would not be one living thing that would not eventually be physically resurrected. Nothing -- not even belief in Him -- would be required in order for that to happen. Physical death would be overcome for all. Spiritual death would be overcome by Christ's Atonement for those who would believe on His Name and do their best to keep His commandments. And this leads into the third Article of Faith.
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"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~Rudyard Kipling ~
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#3
05-08-2007, 07:05 PM
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fascinating, thank you for that post Katzpur....I have never heard it interpreted like that before and it does make sense.
I am going to go and read the verses on that and pray upon it....I will be back to post my thoughts!
__________________
All men are by nature equal, made all of the same earth by one Workman; and however we deceive ourselves, as dear unto God is the poor peasant as the mighty prince. Plato
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#4
05-08-2007, 07:10 PM
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You might also want to read this. Once you're in that site, choose "Selections from the Book of Moses." Chapters 1 through 5 are the most relevant to this discussion.
__________________
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~Rudyard Kipling ~
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#5
05-08-2007, 07:20 PM
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Moses is such an amazing book. DEFINITELY read it.
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#6
05-09-2007, 01:44 AM
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Hello Katzpur and thank you for the link and also thank you Aqualung, so far it is an amazing read. So far I have read chapters one through six.
It seems to fill in the gaps so to speak in the chapters of Genesis, up to when Noah was born. I read up to chapter six and thought it best to stop because I started to get a little confused and wanted to sort out what I have learned so far. I went back and read up to chapter six in the Book of Genesis of the Bible ( KJV ) as well . I am a little more confused now. I am going to go and study some more and I was wondering if I could post any questions here or elsewhere? To give you an idea of what I am talking about: It seems to me as if the first six chapters in the "Selections from the Book of Moses" and the first six chapters in the Book of Genesis, overlap a little..... one obvious point would be when Cain and Abel were born. Did Adam and Eve bore them first or did they have other children first? was this one of the things that was lost and that God has now restored through Joesph Smith. Hopefully you have an idea of what I am saying. I will go study some more...something I'm missing. Thanks, darnell EDIT: OK I've done my studying ( about 2 hours of it )..... I have read the introductions to the "Pearl of Great Price" and the "Book of Mormon" given on the LDS website that you graciously provided Katzpur.  I was also on the Jeff Lindsay website and read a ton of information related to people's accusations towards the Book of Mormon. All this has now cleared up my misunderstanding. These books were revealed through Joseph Smith by God to restore the truths that were lost. Now that all my misunderstandings are cleared up, there is still one question that remains..... Joseph Smith was commanded by God to translate the then KJV bible. It was not a word for word translation but a revelation made by God. In fact those chapters you directed me to read were selections from the "Book of Moses"; which in turn came out of the JSV ( Joseph Smith translation ). The JSV is considered to be a translation of the Bible ( as it was back then ) but the key difference is that it was inspired by God to help clear up any confusion of the then modern day Bible but also to restore what was lost. Now I have probably repeated myself up there ( sorry ) but I'm learning as I go and to me this all makes sense and what I believe so far. There is a ring of truth to it. If there is anything that I am grossly misunderstanding then please correct me. Now comes the question: If Joseph Smith was commanded by God to translate the KJV and henceforth revealed it to him.....why is the JSV not the official Bible translation of the LDS church? If everything is correct in my thinking then this is the only question I have and it would make sense to me that this be the church's official translation of the Bible. As it was inspired by God. Just wondering why the church wouldn't do this seeing as how they still honor this translation and make use of it. ps. sorry for the long post 
__________________
All men are by nature equal, made all of the same earth by one Workman; and however we deceive ourselves, as dear unto God is the poor peasant as the mighty prince. Plato
Last edited by daddyholland; 05-09-2007 at 04:54 AM..
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#7
05-09-2007, 06:37 AM
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Another more obvious reason is that if we want to discuss the Bible with other Christians, using a different version - especially one that can't be verified by scholars - would cause more problems than it would help. Unless and until you accept Joseph Smith as a prophet the JST is pretty much worthless. Another possibility is one that I'm not sure has much validity, and it may well just be my personal thoughts (I'm not sure whether I came up with it or if I read it a while back). I'm not convinced that the real purpose of the JST was to "fix" the KJV. I have no doubt that it does, in fact, clarify many things that are not clear in the KJV, but I think the main purpose of commanding Joseph to make the translation was to get him to do a very in-depth study of the Bible. A good part of what is now the Doctrine and Covenants came about because Joseph had questions while he was doing the translation, asked them, and received a revelation on the subject. More often than not that is how revelation comes - as an answer to a question. So, it is possible that the purpose of translating the Bible was to prepare Joseph to receive parts of Doctrine and Covenants. Some of those sentances are really bad - but hopefully you can get through them
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When a man asks for proof we can be pretty sure that proof is the last thing in the world he really wants. His request is thrown out as a challenge, and the chances are that he has no intention of being shown up. - Hugh Nibbley Last edited by SoyLeche; 05-09-2007 at 08:04 AM..
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#8
05-09-2007, 10:09 AM
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Your other two points definitely had merit as well. I think maybe I was being to nitpicky with my line of questioning. By the way...your sentences were legible and articulate; I was able to understand them easily. Thank you, darnell
__________________
All men are by nature equal, made all of the same earth by one Workman; and however we deceive ourselves, as dear unto God is the poor peasant as the mighty prince. Plato
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#9
05-09-2007, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
__________________
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~Rudyard Kipling ~
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#10
05-09-2007, 01:22 PM
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I found another site today that confirms even more in my mind the authenticity of the Book of Mormon. These are surely eye opening articles which take the critics attacks and show them for what they are. They also explain and illustrate the Mormon's belief beautifully. They welcome critics and don't back down from the hard questions. I can say with 100 percent certainty that the Book of Mormon is God's word! In my eye's it has stood the test of time and anything less would not of survived. http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/r...s_doctrine.htm Quote:
- Hence the Book of Mormon truly is Another Testament of Jesus Christ
__________________
All men are by nature equal, made all of the same earth by one Workman; and however we deceive ourselves, as dear unto God is the poor peasant as the mighty prince. Plato
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