Jewish Messiah (priest, Earth, Deuteronomy, Kingdom, beliefs)

Comprehend · #1 02-14-2007, 02:04 AM

Hello RF Jews!

I know almost nothing about the Jewish faith. I was hoping to learn a bit about it by asking you all some questions if you do not mind. (I am in no way attempting to convert anyone or influence or question your beliefs)

1. Does your faith teach that a Messiah will come and save or lead the Jewish people?

1.5. If yes, are there signs or anything that you look for?

2. Do Jews believe in an afterlife?

Thanks in advance.

NoahideHiker · #2 02-14-2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comprehend

Hello RF Jews!

I know almost nothing about the Jewish faith. I was hoping to learn a bit about it by asking you all some questions if you do not mind. (I am in no way attempting to convert anyone or influence or question your beliefs)

1. Does your faith teach that a Messiah will come and save or lead the Jewish people?

1.5. If yes, are there signs or anything that you look for?

2. Do Jews believe in an afterlife?

Thanks in advance.

1. Lead yes. Save? Only in the fact he will bring about a new era of peace.
1.5 The signs we look for are...

First of all, he must be Jewish - "...you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you." (Deuteronomy 17:15) He must be a member of the tribe of Judah - "The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet..." (Genesis 49:10)
He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son - "And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever..." (2 Samuel 7:12 - 13)
He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel -"And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11:12)
He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem - "...and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them.." (Ezekiel 37:26 - 27)
He will rule at a time of world-wide peace - "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." (Micah 4:3)
He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d's commandments - "My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes." (Ezekiel 37:24)
He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d - "And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd" (Isaiah 66:23)
All of these criteria are best stated in the book of Ezekiel Chapter 37 verses 24-28:

And David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. they shall also follow My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Yaakov my servant, in which your fathers have dwelt and they shall dwell there, they and their children, and their children's children forever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever. Moreover, I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them, which I will give them; and I will multiply them and I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. And my tabernacle shall be with them: and I will be their G-d and they will be my people. Then the nations shall know that I am the L-rd who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary will be in the midst of them forevermore.

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be "The Messiah." A careful analysis of these criteria shows us that to date, no one has fulfilled every condition.

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/fa...-criteria.html

2. This has differed from sect to sect but generally yes, Jews believe everyone will be resurected when the final Moshiach comes.

Comprehend · #3 02-14-2007, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoahideHiker

1. Lead yes. Save? Only in the fact he will bring about a new era of peace.
1.5 The signs we look for are...

First of all, he must be Jewish - "...you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you." (Deuteronomy 17:15) He must be a member of the tribe of Judah - "The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet..." (Genesis 49:10)
He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son - "And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever..." (2 Samuel 7:12 - 13)
He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel -"And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11:12)
He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem - "...and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them.." (Ezekiel 37:26 - 27)
He will rule at a time of world-wide peace - "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." (Micah 4:3)
He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d's commandments - "My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes." (Ezekiel 37:24)
He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d - "And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd" (Isaiah 66:23)

All of these criteria are best stated in the book of Ezekiel Chapter 37 verses 24-28:

And David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. they shall also follow My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Yaakov my servant, in which your fathers have dwelt and they shall dwell there, they and their children, and their children's children forever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever. Moreover, I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them, which I will give them; and I will multiply them and I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. And my tabernacle shall be with them: and I will be their G-d and they will be my people. Then the nations shall know that I am the L-rd who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary will be in the midst of them forevermore.

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be "The Messiah." A careful analysis of these criteria shows us that to date, no one has fulfilled every condition.

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/fa...-criteria.html

2. This has differed from sect to sect but generally yes, Jews believe everyone will be resurected when the final Moshiach comes.

Thanks for the in depth response and link. I have some reading to do.

when you say, final Moshiach, does that mean there will be more than one?

Does the Temple have to be rebuilt before Moshiach will come? and does it have to be on the Temple Mount?

Polaris · #4 02-14-2007, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoahideHiker

He will rule at a time of world-wide peace - "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." (Micah 4:3)

He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d - "And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd" (Isaiah 66:23)

Are these precursors to his coming or results of his efforts?

If they are precursors they seem like pretty far-off, if not impossible, conditions. How do you believe these conditions will be established?

NoahideHiker · #5 02-15-2007, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comprehend

Thanks for the in depth response and link. I have some reading to do.

when you say, final Moshiach, does that mean there will be more than one?

Does the Temple have to be rebuilt before Moshiach will come? and does it have to be on the Temple Mount?

There have been many moshiachs throughout history. The Tanach even uses the word moshiach when addressing an evil priest (of Baal I think). They had a job to do and their jobs were not all the same. When we talk of THE Moshiach we speak of the final one who will fulfill the prophecies of the coming messianic age.

No the Temple must not be built before because Moshiach will start it's rebuilding. The final temple will be built where the present foundations are. At least I think that's where the second one was rebuilt.

NoahideHiker · #6 02-15-2007, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polaris

Are these precursors to his coming or results of his efforts?

If they are precursors they seem like pretty far-off, if not impossible, conditions. How do you believe these conditions will be established?

Yes there is a difference between precursors and the results of his coming. We have few, if any, actual precursors in the Tanach. Why? Because so much depends on us for his coming.

It is taught in Judaism that there must be one of two conditions for the Moshiach to come. Either we are deserving of his coming through keeping the commandments and statutes or the world will be on the brink of disaster and we force him to come. Gee, which one do you think is more likely? LOL! This is why in the Talmud some sages were found to say, "May the Moshiach come but we pray we are not a part of that generation.". There were even fringe sects of Judaism that would purposely break every commandment they could in trying to make the world dark enough to bring Moshiach. Some think that if neither of these conditions occur before the 7,000th year he will come then as the year 7,000 will mark the Shabbat of the world's history.

It is taught that every generation has a man born who could be the Moshiach if the conditions are met within that generation. This is why there are so few verses dedicated to who the Moshiach is but they are more about the messianic age, not the man.

Polaris · #7 02-15-2007, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoahideHiker

It is taught in Judaism that there must be one of two conditions for the Moshiach to come. Either we are deserving of his coming through keeping the commandments and statutes or the world will be on the brink of disaster and we force him to come. Gee, which one do you think is more likely? LOL! This is why in the Talmud some sages were found to say, "May the Moshiach come but we pray we are not a part of that generation.". There were even fringe sects of Judaism that would purposely break every commandment they could in trying to make the world dark enough to bring Moshiach.

So how will the Moshiach establish a world of peace and universal understanding of the one true God? How will he gain that level of influence outside the Jewish community? Will he perform extraordinary miracles that will convince the world of his divine calling?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoahideHiker

Some think that if neither of these conditions occur before the 7,000th year he will come then as the year 7,000 will mark the Shabbat of the world's history.

What year are we in right now?

NoahideHiker · #8 02-15-2007, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polaris

So how will the Moshiach establish a world of peace and universal understanding of the one true God? How will he gain that level of influence outside the Jewish community? Will he perform extraordinary miracles that will convince the world of his divine calling?

What year are we in right now?

The date is Shvat 27, 5767. I was mistaken about the 7,000 year thing. It's 6,000 not 7,000 (brainfart).

Will he perform miracles? I believe so in the way that Moses did. I think the greatest miracle will be how enfluenctule he will be on the world leaders. Much like Moses. Do i think that we will wake up one morning and BANG everything changed over night? No. The Tanach says that a day will come when 10 men from every nation will grab the garment of the Jew and say, "Take us with you for we see that G-d is with you.".

We also find in Isaiah 53 that when Israel is restored that all the world leaders will be so shocked they will cover their mouths and be amazed at what is going on and at how they mistreated Israel.

I think the rebuilding of the temple will be the focal point though.