Promised land/promised world (priests, moral, Moses, Earth, Torah)

[jmaster78]

Could someone clear up a thought for me! if the Boss created the world equal, then every part of it should be equally important. So why was there a promised land? surely this means that area is better than the rest. And if all men were created equal, then why did the Boss have a chosen people (ie better than everyone else) Is it possible he meant Humans were his favourite living creation as a whole, not a certain group of people? and of all the planets, earth was his favourite land, not just a certain part of the earth? Knowing all things, surely he would have known awarding higher status to a certain people/place would have incured jelousy in the rest?
Just a thought thats been bugging me! And would appreciate if someone could clear it up for me.

thanx in advance!

[NoahideHiker]

The terms “promised land” and chosen people” are a bit of a misnomer. Many times Israel is called and compared to Hashem’s first born son. In those days the first born son was a step below the father and he was elevated above his siblings. With this honor comes a double portion of responsibility as well. Israel’s responsibilities are to be a light unto the nations. They are the priests and we, the nations, are the congregation. Before G-d made His covenant with Moses and the nation of Israel all humans were equal. Before this covenant everyone lived by the seven laws (and 66 commands) of the covenant He made with Noah. He then elevated Israel as His first born son and gave them an additional three laws (10 commandments) and 613 commands within the ten. More elevation, more responsibility. So while they are chosen it is more like the teacher’s pet who always has to watch the class while the teacher’s out and is not very popular with the other kids.

Abram was the first monotheist. In a land where polytheistic, pagan religion was the rule he came to realize a One True G-d. He was so special to G-d that He called him “friend”. In Genesis 15 G-d tells Abram he will have many descendants….

5. And He took him outside, and He said, "Please look heavenward and count the stars, if you are able to count them." And He said to him, "So will be your seed."
6. And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him as righteousness.

So someone this important to Hashem is given a land where they will settle (and later return). What kind of land would a father give his first born son? The best land. It’s like a proud father saying of his good son who he is so proud of, “Nothing but the best for my boy!”. So He told him…

On that day, God made a covenant with Abram, saying: "To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt as far as the great river the Euphrates. The land of the Kenites, Kenizites, Kadmonites; the Chitties, Perizites, Refaim; the Emorites, Canaanites, Gigashites and Yevusites." (Genesis 15:18-21)

When the Jews are in the land of Israel it flourishes and produces such an abundance. It truly is the Land of Milk and Honey. We have proof of this from aerial photos of the land of Israel when the Jews are there and when they are not. Back in the 60s when the Jews resettled in the Gaza area of Gush Katiff it was barren. The people already living there thought they were crazy for even wanting the worthless land. Nothing grew there. But within a few short decades Gush Katiff was producing a great portion of Israel’s produce and some 80% of it’s exported flower industry.

When the Israeli government forced everyone out of Gush Katiff and handed it over to the Palestinians they couldn’t grow anything but a low yield of low quality strawberries. It’s dying again.

So does all this make the Jews better than the rest of us? No. It’s just that their job in this world is more important and much harder than ours. Is Israel more important than the rest of the world? In a way. Is the heart any more important than the eyes or kidneys? No, but without the heart the body dies.

[NoahideHiker]

Actually for me, as a Gentile, I have my own promised land. In fact you are very close to this promised land...


The Gates of Heaven!

[jmaster78]

good point about Israel being the ministers of the Boss's church, but some would say Israel hasn't been much of a role model as of late! certainly they aren't great at turning the other cheek. and as for being faithful to G_D, they have repeatedly turned from him even before they even reached Israel. Not a good choice of role model from G_D's point of view, like choosing Moses as a spokesman even though he had a 'speech impediment'. but thats another thread. like alot of first born sons, the Jewish faith can seem arrogant to some people, whether or not this is a result of handling their responsibilities poorly. sometimes it looks like they don't want to share the faith with other nations, after all, Peter was turned on because he approached the gentiles. like they were afraid of anything that might weaken their monopoly on G_D's word.
As you know ireland doesn't have a big Jewish comunity so there's very little interaction for people to get to know and understand other religions. I hope you and anyone else can help me understand the religion that gave birth to my own.

p.s thank the lord for the black gold!

Originally Posted by jmaster78

So why was there a promised land? surely this means that area is better than the rest. And if all men were created equal, then why did the Boss have a chosen people (ie better than everyone else) Is it possible he meant Humans were his favourite living creation as a whole, not a certain group of people? and of all the planets, earth was his favourite land, not just a certain part of the earth? Knowing all things, surely he would have known awarding higher status to a certain people/place would have incured jelousy in the rest?
!

I think you have made the point clear yourself, I also think if their was a chosen race then thay would come from within the mist of multiple faiths. But tyhe Lord Almighty Loves All, but has to start somewhere, well, so the saying goes.

[NoahideHiker]

good point about Israel being the ministers of the Boss's church, but some would say Israel hasn't been much of a role model as of late! certainly they aren't great at turning the other cheek. and as for being faithful to G_D, they have repeatedly turned from him even before they even reached Israel. Not a good choice of role model from G_D's point of view, like choosing Moses as a spokesman even though he had a 'speech impediment'. but thats another thread.

Oh the shortcomings of the nation of Israel are laid bare for all to see in the scriptures. Not only are they expected but they are foretold by the prophets. But even in their shortfalls they are magnifying Hashem. Over and over and over G-d tells Israel what the proper way to do things is and what they can expect if they do do it corectly. And normally within just a few verses He tells them what will happen if they do not do things corectly. G-d will spank them and cast them to the four winds. But through it all G-d will always keep His promise that Israel will always and for ever be His people and they shall never be forsaken and at any time they can return to Him. This magnifies G-d's mercy and compassion.

Even so let's look at the Jewish people and the promises G-d made to them. THe Jewish people have always been a tiny fraction of the world's population but yet look at how they still survive. Much larger societies and peoples have vanished form the planet. Yet tiny Israel remains. Look at the positive effects the Jews have had on the world. Here is an amazing essay by the great American writer Mark Twain about the Jews...

http://ohr.edu/judaism/concern/concerna.htm

that He would choose someone who was a shy stuttering man such as Moses goes a long way in showing the potentule in us all. We also must keep the NATION or Israel in contrast to the COUNTRY of Israel. Many times the country of Israel messes up big time but I do not think they are representative of the NATION of Israel, the Jewish people.

like a lot of first born sons, the Jewish faith can seem arrogant to some people, whether or not this is a result of handling their responsibilities poorly. sometimes it looks like they don't want to share the faith with other nations, after all, Peter was turned on because he approached the gentiles. like they were afraid of anything that might weaken their monopoly on G_D's word.

Oh nothing can be further from the truth my friend. It's not a monopoly but rather they are to be the remnant and keep it alive. This stems from two issues. Assimilation and conversion.

Assimilation: One of the biggest mistakes Israel made time and again is to assimilate to the nation's customs and religions around them. G-d made many of His Torah laws for no other reason than to set them apart form the nations. If everyone around them is going to shave and tattoo themselves then the Jews will have beards and side locks and be forbidden from tattooing themselves.

i personally believe this is why G-d commanded the Jews to utterly destroy many of their enemies in war too. So their would be nothing of their religions and customs to mix in with Judaism and weaken it. They were strictly told what to do and how to do it and that these things would never pass away. This is why traditional, biblical Judaism today is nearly the same now as back then (aside from traditions and customs that don't effect the law). There can be no mixing of the religions. This is why the messianic movement within the christian church is such an affront to Judaism.

Conversion: They do not share their religion like other religions do because they do not seek converts. There is no reason for us to have to convert to judaism. We already have our moral religious code through the covenant of Noah and a place in the world to come. If you, as a christian, go to a rabbi (orthodox) and say you want to convert he's going to turn you away at least three times and tell you to be the best christian you can be and follow G-d. Why? Because when they do take converts they have to be fully committed to being a Jew and keeping the laws for the rest of their lives. Once they convert it is as if they were born a Jew and they can never go back. It's either you are observant or you are an apostate. Further if someone converts and then backslides not only are his transgressions on him but the rabbi is held responsible too.

And as much as I hate to use the anti-Semite card (the Jews are stronger than to fall back on that) throughout history when they do stick their necks out and share their religion they get their heads chopped off. The great church reformer Martin Luther was a friend to the Jews early on but when he attempted to convert a rabbi and the rabbi turned around and tried to convert him Luther became so ensenced that he wrote a book calling on world leaders to burn synagogs and take away their Torah scrolls and not allow them to pray or even utter the name of G-d. His writtings were used as the basis for countless atrocities against the Jews.


p.s thank the lord for the black gold!

You know, my great grandfather died in the Dublin brewery. He fell into one of the brewing vats and died a slow death. He got out three times to use the bathroom! LOL!

[NoahideHiker]

Damn! Sorry it's so long.

[jmaster78]

There is no denying Israels resilience, it's strength and ability to survive, as you say it is a tiny country (physically) wedged between huge powerful neighbours, and always has been.

"i personally believe this is why G-d commanded the Jews to utterly destroy many of their enemies in war too. So their would be nothing of their religions and customs to mix in with Judaism and weaken it. They were strictly told what to do and how to do it and that these things would never pass away. This is why traditional, biblical Judaism today is nearly the same now as back then (aside from traditions and customs that don't effect the law). There can be no mixing of the religions. This is why the messianic movement within the christian church is such an affront to Judaism."

never quite got that whole part of the bible, how a G-D of love and peace justified killing more people than all the tyrants of the twentieth century put together. G-D revealed himself to the Israelites and so they had the choice to love him or not, to be saved or not, but he didn't give the people of Cannan, Jerhico or wherever that choice so basically he punished them for not loving him when they never knew he existed. if he had revealed himself to them, then they might just have loved him. They were punished for not knowing about him, yet he repeatedly forgives the Israelites who knew him yet turned away . whats worse breaking a law you don't know exists.....or breaking a law you are fully conscious of???

"They do not share their religion like other religions do because they do not seek converts."

If G-D trusted them as spokesmen for his faith, surely they should be out there knocking on peoples doors sharing their religion and converting as many people as possible.

why would a Rabbi tell me he is happy that i am a christian and therefore am already saved, when Christianity and Judaism are so different, to Jews, Jesus was just a man yet we Christians worship him, if he is just a man then we are worshiping a false idol in the eyes or Judaism!

[jmaster78]

"You know, my great grandfather died in the Dublin brewery. He fell into one of the brewing vats and died a slow death. He got out three times to use the bathroom! LOL"

love it!