A title is not a name. (Jesus Christ, priest, Moses, Earth)

[k4c]

Hello to you all and may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ bless you all.

What I want to talk about here is (titles) and how we can become confused by them.

We find many titles in the Bible given to an assortment of beings. Titles such as God, Angel of the Lord, sons of God, messiah, Christ, satan and so on. These are not personal names but rather they are titles given to indicate the person's function, attitude, authority, role, position, rank and so on.

Sometimes we see these titles in the Bible and begin to form biblically unsound doctrines such as seen in the co-eternal, co-equal trinity God doctrine. For example, when we see the title (GOD) given to Jesus right away we equate Jesus with the one true GOD. We begin to form our belief around the word (GOD) and equate Jesus with being tof the same essence of the Father making Him co-eternal and co-equal with the Father. But we know from huge amount of Scripture evidence that Jesus is not equal with the Father and nor was He immortal as the Father.

We know from Scripture that there are many GODs but there is only one true God, the Father. There is a fallen angel who is given the title GOD but he is not co-eternal and co-equal with the Father. We even have the Scriptures calling natural man, (God) because they brought the word of God to others. Moses was called, God to Pharaoh.

The word (GOD) is a title given to many throughout Scripture but it's when we learn the personal name of these people is where we learn who they truely are.

Proverbs 30:4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son's name, if you know?

So with this, Jesus can be called God but not in a co-eternal and co-equal sense. Jesus is called God because His Father has given Him this title to rule with authority and act in His behalf.

Knowing this, let us be biblically sound in our beliefs of the one true God and His Son Jesus Christ.

Let me know your thoughts...

Many blessings,
John

[Squirt]

Originally Posted by k4c

Hello to you all and may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ bless you all.

What I want to talk about here is (titles) and how we can become confused by them.

We find many titles in the Bible given to an assortment of beings. Titles such as God, Angel of the Lord, sons of God, messiah, Christ, satan and so on. These are not personal names but rather they are titles given to indicate the person's function, attitude, authority, role, position, rank and so on.

Sometimes we see these titles in the Bible and begin to form biblically unsound doctrines such as seen in the co-eternal, co-equal trinity God doctrine. For example, when we see the title (GOD) given to Jesus right away we equate Jesus with the one true GOD. We begin to form our belief around the word (GOD) and equate Jesus with being tof the same essence of the Father making Him co-eternal and co-equal with the Father. But we know from huge amount of Scripture evidence that Jesus is not equal with the Father and nor was He immortal as the Father.

We know from Scripture that there are many GODs but there is only one true God, the Father. There is a fallen angel who is given the title GOD but he is not co-eternal and co-equal with the Father. We even have the Scriptures calling natural man, (God) because they brought the word of God to others. Moses was called, God to Pharaoh.

The word (GOD) is a title given to many throughout Scripture but it's when we learn the personal name of these people is where we learn who they truely are.

Proverbs 30:4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son's name, if you know?

So with this, Jesus can be called God but not in a co-eternal and co-equal sense. Jesus is called God because His Father has given Him this title to rule with authority and act in His behalf.

Knowing this, let us be biblically sound in our beliefs of the one true God and His Son Jesus Christ.

Let me know your thoughts...

Many blessings,
John

Well, I'm not a Jehovah's Witness, but I can pretty much accept what you've said here. I don't believe in the Trinity either.

[Aqualung]

Sounds... okay. You were really rambling though. Your last sentence, "knowing this..." doesn't even follow from the title... I'm not really sure what you're trying to say or what the point is.

[k4c]

Hi Squirt,

I'm not a Jehovah's Witness either but its hard to find nontrinitarin fellowship.

[k4c]

Hi Aqualung,

I'm just trying to get some discussion going and see where the Lord leads.

[Aqualung]

Oh, okay. Carry on.

[k4c]

Lets take the title Angel of the Lord.

When Trinitarians see the title, Angel of the Lord, right away they equal it with the preexised Jesus. In doing so they become blinded to the vast amount of biblical support of Michael being the Angel of the Lord and Chief messenger of God. For example, we read in the book of Jude where Michael had a dispute with the devil over Moses' body.

Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

This dispute between Michael and the devil has been distorted by the Bible translators so that we would miss a huge support to Michael being the Angel of the Lord. How the translators did this is by mistranslating one word and that word is the word (body).

If you look through the entire Bibe you will not find one passage of Scripture that speaks of a distpute between Michael and the devil over Moses' literal body.

The word (body) can and should have been translated (slave) or (servant). With this in mind where do we find a dispute between Michael and the devil over Moses' servant the high priest Joshua. We find it word for word in Zechariah 3:1-4.
Zechariah 3:1-4 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the Angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

In Jude we have Michael disputing with the devil over Moses’ servant but in Zechariah 3:1-4 we have the Angel of the Lord disputing with Satan over Moses’ servant regarding his righteousness. We can see the same exact words being used in Jude as in Zechariah.

In Jude Michael says to the devil, “The Lord rebuke you.”

In Zechariah the Angel of the Lord says to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you.”

In both these cases we have a dispute over Joshua’s filthy garments and how Joshua was one who was plucked out of the fire.

Now look at Jude 23-25.

Jude 1:23-25 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Now look at what the Angel of the Lord does with Joshua and his filthy garments. Joshua was a high priest which made him a servant to Moses in the Santcuary services.

Zechariah 3:3-7Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and was standing before the Angel. Then He answered and spoke to those who stood before Him, saying, "Take away the filthy garments from him.'' And to him He said, "See, I have removed your iniquity from you, and I will clothe you with rich robes.'' And I said, "Let them put a clean turban on his head.'' So they put a clean turban on his head, and they put the clothes on him. And the Angel of the Lord stood by. Then the Angel of the Lord admonished Joshua, saying, "Thus says the Lord of hosts: `If you will walk in My ways, and if you will keep My command, then you shall also judge My house, and likewise have charge of My courts; I will give you places to walk among these who stand here.

Michael and the Angel of the Lord are one and the same person in the same way the devil and Satan are one in the same person.

Understanding titles is one way we can cut through the smoke screen to see the truth.

Many blessing,
John

[Squirt]

Originally Posted by k4c

Hi Squirt,

I'm not a Jehovah's Witness either but its hard to find nontrinitarin fellowship.

You'll find some on this site. I have learned that quite a few people don't accept this doctrine.

[dawny0826]

I don't how you've come to the conclusion that "trinitarians" believe that Michael and Jesus are one in the same. I've never known a "trinitarian" to believe such.

I wouldn't doubt that Michael is the Angel of the Lord.

Christ isn't an angel. So...to believe Michael is Christ makes no sense to me whatsoever. Christ is over all angels...WE will have higher rank than angels, according to the Bible.

[k4c]

Originally Posted by dawny0826

I don't how you've come to the conclusion that "trinitarians" believe that Michael and Jesus are one in the same. I've never known a "trinitarian" to believe such.

I wouldn't doubt that Michael is the Angel of the Lord.

Christ isn't an angel. So...to believe Michael is Christ makes no sense to me whatsoever. Christ is over all angels...WE will have higher rank than angels, according to the Bible.

Hi dawny,

I didn't say Trinitarians believed Michael and Jesus are one in the same. I said Trinitarian DON'T believe Michael and Jesus are one in the same.

Because of the trinity doctrine and how Trinitarians have come to believe in a co-eternal and co-equal trinity God they have missed so much biblical truth regarding the personal name of God's chief messenger.

All throughout Scripture we find God changing peoples name. Michael is one those who had a name change along with Abraham, Jacob, Paul, Peter and so on.

The name (Jesus) was given to Michael when He came into the world through Mary.

Matthew 1:21 "And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.''

Prior to this, Jesus' personal name was Michael with a title of Angel of the Lord.

Trinitarians will say that Jesus couldn't be an angel because te Bible says Jesus has a name superior then angels. If you carefully read the verse which speaks of Jesus' name being better than all the other angels you will find the reason for Jesus name being better then all the other angels was because of His inheritence.

Hebrews 1:4 Having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Did you notice how Jesus became better than the other angels and received a name more excellent through His inheritence?

The Scriptures go on to say that when the Father brings Jesus into the world AGAIN now all the other angels are to worship Jesus because of this new name He has inherited.

Hebrews 1:6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him.''

Jesus' firstborn status came not through His birth through Mary but rather through His birth by way of the resurrection.

Acts 13:33 "God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: `You are My Son, today I have begotten You.'

Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.

It was through Jesus resurrection that He became firstborn from the dead in which He has inherited and name above all names as the Son who now sits at the right hand of the Father on High.

These truths are over looked by Trinitarians because of twsited Scripture verses leading to twisted thoughts and doctrines.

Many blessings,
John