Religious Education Forum  

Welcome Guest to ReligiousForums.com . You are currently not registered. When you become registered you will be able to interact with our large base of already registered users discussing topics. Some annoying Ads will also disappear when you register. Registering doesn't cost a thing and only takes a few seconds. We provide areas to chat and debate all World Religions. Please go to our register page!
Home Who's Online Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Religious Education Forum / Discuss Individual Religions (DIR) / Abrahamic Religions DIR / Islam DIR / Islamic Sufism DIR
Sitemap Popular RF Forums REGISTER Search Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-13-2007, 10:53 PM
jamaesi's Avatar
jamaesi Offline
Religion: Sufi
Title:To Save A Lamb
Tolerance Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Gender: Gender-Neutral
Posts: 4,699
Frubals: 867
jamaesi adds applause tracks to frubal commentsjamaesi adds applause tracks to frubal commentsjamaesi adds applause tracks to frubal commentsjamaesi adds applause tracks to frubal commentsjamaesi adds applause tracks to frubal commentsjamaesi adds applause tracks to frubal commentsjamaesi adds applause tracks to frubal commentsjamaesi adds applause tracks to frubal commentsjamaesi adds applause tracks to frubal comments
Default An Overview of Sufism

I am God's Lion, not the lion of passion....
I have no longing
except for the One.
When a wind of personal reaction comes,
I do not go along with it.
There are many winds full of anger,
and lust and greed. They move the rubbish around,
but the solid mountain of our true nature stays where it's always been.
-Rumi




The following is from the Wikipedia entry on Sufism. Do visit that article and the links included on that page to learn more about this path connected to Islam.




Sufism is a mystic tradition of Islam encompassing a diverse range of beliefs and practices dedicated to Allah/God, divine love and sometimes to help a fellow man. Tariqas (Sufi orders) may be associated with Shi'a Islam, Sunni Islam, other currents of Islam, or a combination of multiple traditions. It has been suggested that Sufi thought emerged from the Middle East in the eighth century, but adherents are now found around the world. Some Sufis have also claimed that Sufism pre-dates Islam and some groups operate with only very tenuous links to Islam.


Basic beliefs

The essence of being/Truth/God is devoid of every form and quality, and hence unmanifested, yet it is inseparable from every form and phenomenon either material or spiritual. It is often understood to imply that every phenomenon is an aspect of Truth and at the same time attribution of existence to it is false. The chief aim of all Sufis then is to let go of all notions of duality, therefore the individual self also, and realize the divine unity.
Sufis teach in personal groups, as the interaction of the master is considered necessary for the growth of the pupil. They make extensive use of parable, allegory, and metaphor, and it is held by Sufis that meaning can only be reached through a process of seeking the truth, and knowledge of oneself. Although philosophies vary between different Sufi orders, Sufism as a whole is primarily concerned with direct personal experience, and as such may be compared to various forms of mysticism such as Zen Buddhism and Gnosticism.
The following metaphor, credited to an unknown Sufi scholar, helps describe this line of thought.
There are three ways of knowing a thing. Take for instance a flame. One can be told of the flame, one can see the flame with his own eyes, and finally one can reach out and be burned by it. In this way, we Sufis seek to be burned by God. A significant part of Persian literature comes from the Sufis, who created great books of poetry (which include for example the Walled Garden of Truth, Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam, the Conference of the Birds and the Masnavi), all of which contain teachings of the Sufis.










Here are a few more good resources for learning about Sufism.

International Association of Sufism


What is Sufism?


Sufism -- Sufis -- Sufi Orders

Sufism


Islamic Mysticism: Sufism
__________________
I love God: I have no time left
In which to hate the devil.


Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-21-2009, 09:55 AM
janoun2003 Offline
Title:BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Gender: Undisclosed
Posts: 14
Frubals: 34664
janoun2003 says HEY wake up the administrator!  We ran out of silly comments!janoun2003 says HEY wake up the administrator!  We ran out of silly comments!janoun2003 says HEY wake up the administrator!  We ran out of silly comments!janoun2003 says HEY wake up the administrator!  We ran out of silly comments!janoun2003 says HEY wake up the administrator!  We ran out of silly comments!janoun2003 says HEY wake up the administrator!  We ran out of silly comments!
janoun2003 says HEY wake up the administrator!  We ran out of silly comments!janoun2003 says HEY wake up the administrator!  We ran out of silly comments!janoun2003 says HEY wake up the administrator!  We ran out of silly comments!janoun2003 says HEY wake up the administrator!  We ran out of silly comments!janoun2003 says HEY wake up the administrator!  We ran out of silly comments!janoun2003 says HEY wake up the administrator!  We ran out of silly comments!janoun2003 says HEY wake up the administrator!  We ran out of silly comments!janoun2003 says HEY wake up the administrator!  We ran out of silly comments!
Default

the sufism is suna from the otuman ampir
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-30-2010, 04:11 PM
ZoyaHayat's Avatar
ZoyaHayat Offline
Religion: Spirituality and Love
Title:Divine Female Power
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Gender: Female
Posts: 341
Frubals: 35
ZoyaHayat is a splendid one to behold
Default

Dear Jamaesi...i read your the information you have provided concerning Sufism...i am sorry t say i contradict linking Sufism to Islam...Sufism is a type of Mysticism and Spirituality-which is found in every religion...Sufism is not bound to any one religion...it is religionless...it is innateness of the Alma...
Sorry to say but i honestly do contradict your definition of Sufism...

As for Wikipedia-anyone can edit and change the content...

Most of the Sufi Saints that have existed in the Indian Sub-Continent did not admit they were Muslims...

xxx
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-31-2010, 05:10 AM
A-ManESL's Avatar
A-ManESL Offline
Religion: Muslim
Title:Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: India
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,015
Frubals: 174
A-ManESL falls for the old 'Pull my frubals' trick every timeA-ManESL falls for the old 'Pull my frubals' trick every timeA-ManESL falls for the old 'Pull my frubals' trick every timeA-ManESL falls for the old 'Pull my frubals' trick every time
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoyaHayat View Post

Most of the Sufi Saints that have existed in the Indian Sub-Continent did not admit they were Muslims...

xxx
There were two types of Sufis in the Indian subcontinent: be sharia and ba-sharia. The former didn't explicitly follow orthodox Islam and the latter explicitly followed sharia (Islamic law). The more influential Sufis such as Ali Hujwiri, and the initial Chishti chain: Moin uddin Chishti, Bakhtiyar Kaki, Baba Farid, Nizamuddin Awliya, Chirag Dehalvi all belong to the sharia following group. This is attested by a number of sources, including their own writings, for example this book.

To think that major Sufi movements are outside the pale of Islam is incorrect. There did (and still do) exist some movements but the majority of Sufis practiced and practice Islam. Imam Ghazali's efforts had ensured that Sufi movements retain the respect of the orthodoxy during the medieval ages. Even today most of the Indian Muslims are linked to the Barelwi and Deobandi movements which trace their lineage through Sufis. In fact, these movements were founded by those claiming to follow Sufism.

Quote:
I am the servant of the Qur'an as long as I have life.
I am the dust on the path of Muhammad, the Chosen One.
If anyone quotes anything except this from my sayings,
I am quit of him and outraged by these words-Rumi.
__________________
And watch two men washing clothes, one makes dry clothes wet. The other makes wet clothes dry. They seem to be thwarting each other, but their work is a perfect harmony. Every holy person seems to have a different doctrine and practice, but there's really only one work.

Last edited by A-ManESL; 01-31-2010 at 05:12 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-31-2010, 09:20 AM
ZoyaHayat's Avatar
ZoyaHayat Offline
Religion: Spirituality and Love
Title:Divine Female Power
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Gender: Female
Posts: 341
Frubals: 35
ZoyaHayat is a splendid one to behold
Default

Dear A-ManESL...

I have found an abstract which proves many things about Sufism...and i personally beleive the same...

Sufism and Islam
There is no firm historical source for Sufism. Many of the early orders were considered an integrated part of Islam, but as teachings were codified and the elements of Shi’i and Sunni Islam became more distinct, Sufism emerged with an identity. One of the basic ideas of Sufism is to minimize the self or individual identity. Belonging to a particular group with a unique name is contradictory to this effort. It is said, “a Sufi is one who is not,” and with a philosophy that seeks the destruction of self-identity it is thought that Sufi’s received their name from outsiders. Initially the term Sufi referred only to those who had achieved God realization, but it has since come to be applied to anyone who follows that particular spiritual path.

While Sufism did not exist prior to Islam, Sufi doctrine contains many elements that go beyond the teaching of Mohammad. Islam is an external structure in which the individual exists while the internal quest for enlightenment belongs to a realm of Sufi knowledge. This knowledge integrates Islam and ancient doctrine that resembles elements of Greek Philosophy, Zoroastrianism and Hinduism that are part of the Sufi path to God-realization. The most sacred knowledge of the Sufi masters is not written and is passed to each generation orally, which makes it somewhat difficult to historically trace the evolution of Sufi doctrine. Nonetheless, it seems reasonable that the Sufi doctrine that differs the most from the rest of Islam had its beginnings much earlier (although this is a very non-Muslim view of Sufism). For many years these extra qualities created a great deal of friction between mainstream Islam and the Muslim mystics. After centuries of falling in and out of favor, Sufis became integrated and an important central part of Islamic culture and society.

A cornerstone of mysticism is that true knowledge of God is achieved directly and not through an intermediary like a prophet, saint or priest. Over the centuries this has led to a great deal of political conflict between mystics and non-mystics. If a cleric or Priest behaves or commands something that seems in conflict with dogma, the individual is not in a position to disagree as long as there is no direct relationship between God and the individual.

Many Sufi orders encourage honoring Saints and Prophets by visiting them if the are alive or their tombs if they have passed on. Pilgrims often will go to ask for favors in the form of miracles or prosperity. In many communities the pilgrims are people from other religions who come to the tombs in hopes of finding favor or receiving miracles.

The high status afforded saints in communities influenced by Sufism implies an alternative means to communicate with God other than through the Imam, the Islamic clerics. In a fundamentalist Islamic community the highest-ranking Imam is the supreme authority, both politically and religiously, and Sufism presents a potential conflict to this authority that has over the centuries led to persecution of Sufis in several Arab countries. Saudi Arabia and Iran are two countries where the tombs of Sufi saints have been destroyed. In some areas teachings of the Sufi masters are held in high regard practicing Sufism is discouraged or even criminalized
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-31-2010, 09:43 AM
ZoyaHayat's Avatar
ZoyaHayat Offline
Religion: Spirituality and Love
Title:Divine Female Power
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Gender: Female
Posts: 341
Frubals: 35
ZoyaHayat is a splendid one to behold
Default

Dear Dear A-ManESL...

Another abstract...


Sufism – What is it?
Sufism (Sufism) may be best described as a mystical practice that emphasizes certain unique rituals for guiding spiritual seekers into a direct encounter with God.Sufis teach that Sufism may be practiced with any religion -- it is the “heart” of religion. No one faith or belief is questioned; each can follow his own church, religion, or creed.One of the important rituals in Sufism is the zikr. During a zikr, one remembers God through meditation, chant, and movement -- certain attributes of God are repeated until the seekers become “saturated” with God. This ritual supposedly, shatters and transforms them. As they spin and whirl around for hours, they reach a state of ecstasy and purity where the heart is only conscious of God. The seeker surrenders his or herself to total abandonment -- a total emptying of self.


Islam and Sufism are two different dimensions...many practices and doctrines of Sufism are fobidden by Islam...such as Poetry(Hazrath Jalaluddin Rumi),Wine or Music(Hazrath Khawaja Nizamuddin Auliya)...etc....

Poetry has been forbidden by the Holy Quraan itself,as shown below:
Surah Al Shuara(The Poets):

026.224YUSUFALI: And the Poets,- It is those straying in Evil, who follow them:
PICKTHAL: As for poets, the erring follow them.
SHAKIR: And as to the poets, those who go astray follow them.

So many teachings,theology and practices make Sufism not Islamic or apart of Islam...Sufism is a universal Spirituality...it encompasses all religions...All Gods are One...we worship the same God in different ways...and to attain him is through the soul...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-31-2010, 10:32 AM
ZoyaHayat's Avatar
ZoyaHayat Offline
Religion: Spirituality and Love
Title:Divine Female Power
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Gender: Female
Posts: 341
Frubals: 35
ZoyaHayat is a splendid one to behold
Default

Dear Dear A-ManESL...

Below are a few links to prove Islam and Sufism are two different spectrums...

Islam Question and Answer - Sufi tareeqahs and the ruling on joining them

Islam Question and Answer - He is asking about Sufism and the Jamaa‚€™at al-Tableegh

Islam Question and Answer - Some people claim that there is an aayah which supports Sufism


please do not take me wrong-i myself was born into a Sunni Muslim family...but i believe that all religions are One...i am an Ascetic...a Mystic...a Spiritualist...a Sufi Woman...a Divine Lover...my beliefs and thoughts contradict the majority of the Muslims...to me Allah,Aum,Jehovah,Ek Onkar are One...we just call upon him with different names and languages...this is the very true essence of Sufism-Spiritualism,Mysticism and Asceticism...the core belief of Sufism is Love-Divine Love and God...

Last edited by ZoyaHayat; 01-31-2010 at 10:42 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-31-2010, 10:39 AM
ZoyaHayat's Avatar
ZoyaHayat Offline
Religion: Spirituality and Love
Title:Divine Female Power
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Gender: Female
Posts: 341
Frubals: 35
ZoyaHayat is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A-ManESL View Post
There were two types of Sufis in the Indian subcontinent: be sharia and ba-sharia. The former didn't explicitly follow orthodox Islam and the latter explicitly followed sharia (Islamic law). The more influential Sufis such as Ali Hujwiri, and the initial Chishti chain: Moin uddin Chishti, Bakhtiyar Kaki, Baba Farid, Nizamuddin Awliya, Chirag Dehalvi all belong to the sharia following group. This is attested by a number of sources, including their own writings, for example this book.

To think that major Sufi movements are outside the pale of Islam is incorrect. There did (and still do) exist some movements but the majority of Sufis practiced and practice Islam. Imam Ghazali's efforts had ensured that Sufi movements retain the respect of the orthodoxy during the medieval ages. Even today most of the Indian Muslims are linked to the Barelwi and Deobandi movements which trace their lineage through Sufis. In fact, these movements were founded by those claiming to follow Sufism.

As for Hazrath Khawaja Nizamuddin Auliya he used classical instruments to sing Hymns to the Lord...which sprang forth the noticeable Qawwali(a form of religious songs)...the Hymns to the Lord were prevalent in many and/or all Sufi Saints of India...accompanied by instruments-which the Islamic Shariah prohibited...as you(A-ManESL) and me know Islam itself forbids music,singing and dancing...even to an extent of singing Naaths(songs of praise to Hazrath Muhammad(SAW)) and Hamdhs(Hymns to the Lord)...so how can you say Hazrath Khawaja Nizamuddin Auliya was a Sufi Saint within the Islamic Shariah?...veneration of the tombs is also strictly forbidded in Islam...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-01-2010, 12:41 AM
A-ManESL's Avatar
A-ManESL Offline
Religion: Muslim
Title:Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: India
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,015
Frubals: 174
A-ManESL falls for the old 'Pull my frubals' trick every timeA-ManESL falls for the old 'Pull my frubals' trick every timeA-ManESL falls for the old 'Pull my frubals' trick every timeA-ManESL falls for the old 'Pull my frubals' trick every time
Default

I do not accept this stand that traditional Sufism is outside the pale of Islam. This is based on my personal interaction with Sufis (none of whom has shown any non-Islamic inclination) and the original works that I have read by Sufi masters themselves. I have read Nizamuddin Awliya's discourses (the english translation was linked in my previous posts) and Mawlana Rumi's discourses (Fihi-ma-fihi) and they both swear allegiance to the sharia themselves. I suggest that you have a look at the original sources and not base your opinion on these websites.

The real issue is that the wahabi/salafi based versions of the sharia denounce Sufi related practices but Indian Muslims mostly follow traditions where they are not denounced. Islamic sharia is based on various schools of thought (Hanafi, Shaafi, Hanbali, Maliki in Sunni Islam) and the Wahabi movement ultimately derives its jurisprudence from Imam Hanbali's approach (which is not necessarily a criticism of his ideas, the movement had its own indigenous philosophy as well). Indian Muslims take their jurisprudence tradionally from the Hanafi school, and the Barelvi/Deobandi movements in India are all pro-Sufi so to speak. The Islamic laws you think are part and parcel of Islam are not so in general but only when retricted to and looked through the prism of a particular school of thought. Imam Shaafi himself used to practice waseela on Imam Hanafi's tomb, how can the people following Shaafi school denounce it? There is a hadith that when the Prophet came to Medina, girls sang songs in his honour. Similarly a group of Egyptians came and danced in front of the prophet, and the prophet didn't forbid them. (Also the verse you cited, referred to poets in the Prophets time who used to dazzle the Arabs with their poetic abilities, their poetry was about worldly affairs, the Arabs of that period held them in great esteem.) Clearly this is a matter of legal interpretation of tradtions and different schools have interpreted ideas differently.

In short I reject the idea that the interpretation of Islam which treats Sufism outside its confines is correct, but I also reject the idea that it is the only interpretation of Islam available. Hazrat Nizamuddin himselves took part in a theological debate where he showed by citing hadith that he was not outside the confines of sharia. Not only do I believe that Sufism is very much a part of our tradition, I believe it is the spiritual aspect provided by Sufism that gives the life and vigour necessary to my way of life. (You may find my complete opinion here, if you care.)

Quote:
to me Allah,Aum,Jehovah,Ek Onkar are One...we just call upon him with different names and languages...
I have no issues with accepting the transcendent unity of religions. In fact, I am a huge proponent of it, and believe that the Quran encourages it, in many verses such as Quran 2:62 for example. You are mistaken in thinking that Muslims reject this, (and also in thinking, if you will pardon me for saying so, that your belief is something new and different from what many Muslims believe). I know of many personally who have no qualms with it, and many scholars as well (for example read this). I do not believe that there is any accurate data that can tell us what the majority thinks and so the issue is moot. Also, I accept that the idea of God accepted by Islamic theologians is not complete, but is only partial as the Quranic verses 31:27 themselves indicate. I could name many more verses of the Quran if you wish.

Finally, I would recommend starting a different thread if you still wish to discuss.

Regards.
__________________
And watch two men washing clothes, one makes dry clothes wet. The other makes wet clothes dry. They seem to be thwarting each other, but their work is a perfect harmony. Every holy person seems to have a different doctrine and practice, but there's really only one work.

Last edited by A-ManESL; 02-01-2010 at 01:09 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-01-2010, 09:11 AM
ZoyaHayat's Avatar
ZoyaHayat Offline
Religion: Spirituality and Love
Title:Divine Female Power
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Gender: Female
Posts: 341
Frubals: 35
ZoyaHayat is a splendid one to behold
Default

What do you believe of Hazrath Bulleh Shah?

There are many Bhakhthi Sufi Saints that had exist...including Hazrath Bulleh Shah,Hazrath Farid-Ud-Din Ganj-e-Shakar,Hazrath Kabir,Sai Baba of Shirdi and many more...

Last edited by ZoyaHayat; 02-01-2010 at 09:13 AM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:41 AM.


Copyright © ReligiousForums.com

SEO by vBSEO ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.