Where do muslims find the Bible distorted?

[.lava]

Originally Posted by Theocan

I know, you guys deem the Bible to be distorted to an extent.

So what passages do muslims believe in and do not believe in?

hi

everything i believe in is written in Qur'an. and anything written in Bible (and also in Tavrah) that matches with Qur'an would be considered 'right'. i do not study Bible, i do not have time, i wish i did. there is only one sentence i know that has a place in three books. they all say that is religion of Abraham(PBUH)

here is what verses of Noble Qur'an says;


[5:72] They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Al-Masih the son of Maryam." But said Al-Masih: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah, Allah will forbid him the Garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.

[5:73] They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

[5:74] Why turn they not to Allah and seek His Forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

[5:75] Al-Masih, the son of Maryam, was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His Signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!






.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Nehustan

If I could be bothered. It looks very much like one revelation to me. As a Christian I looked to rabbinical Judaism to help me understand my Christianity, figuring Jesus was a Jew, and there must be something left of historic Judaism. I seriously considered becoming Jewish, apart from the fact that I couldn't bring myself to renounce Jesus. Actually Islam was put to me by some friends, and at first I had little interest in it, I was much more interested in the Zohar etc. It was actually later on having learnt more about the semiotic in the traditions that the Quran struck me as true. I'm sorry if I can't point it out to you, but I'm not Umberto Eco, my post herein was addressed to Muslims in their acquisition of knowledge, and how it would be wise to approach previous revelations. I was never a bible basher when I was a Christian, I'm even less so as a Muslim, I prefer to read books than try and convince others to.

Thanks...

I have both the Zohar and Qu'ran...good stuff. Can't say I agree with it completely of course but I love the mysticism of the Zohar and the submission of the Qu'ran. I can relate to it.

Anyways, I guess I'll have to find the answer myself because I'm not bound to get it by reading the Qu'ran or asking this Imam or that Imam.

[Nehustan]

If I step back to say when I was looking for the truth in all the Abrahamic faiths, I found that when I realised that it was all symbolic, that words are symbols, that they stand in place of things, I saw sign and symbol in everything, and it all seemed to add up. I had synchronicity come at me from 360° through the X, Y, and Z; it was quite thrilling. I was lucky I suppose it was before the internet, sometimes there's too much to filter on the interweb. I have no doubt if God wants you to see things a certain way, he's the best one to do it. Having experienced such a thing myself, I'm ill-inclined to put my oar in, it's not just bad manners.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Nehustan

One of the definitions of a story is that one takes it to be true, ...

I am unfamiliar with such a definition. The fact remains that you reasonably suggest that ...

his disciples were, comparatively, simple in regard to scripture (i.e. fishermen?), then there is more than enough room for what Jesus said, and what Jesus is reported to have said, to have some distance between them.

yet you allow for no 'distance' between the story spun by later apologists and reality while, apparently, rejecting out of hand the authenticity of the Infancy Gospels. And you're entitled to do so. But to then claim "we have the fact that Jesus was a scholar" is simply to confuse belief with fact.

Originally Posted by Nehustan

This is actually a place for us to discuss Islam, and in this thread particularly to answer supposéd contradictions between Islam, Christianity and Judaism.

You're right. I apologize for the diversion.

[Nehustan]

Actually Islamic tradition teaches that Jesus spoke in his infancy, it's either hadith or perhaps in the Quran itself, which is more relevant to this thread. I of course came to the story first as a Christian.

Let me pull a few definitions from the OED, I think that a fair place to pull definitions of English words from. Like they say, the greatest difference between Americans and Englishmen is the language (I'm assuming you speak American English, but for all I know you could be from Manchester)...

Story, n.1

I. 1. a. A narrative, true or presumed to be true, relating to important events and celebrated persons of a more or less remote past; a historical relation or anecdote. Obs.

2. A historical work, a book of history. Obs.

3. In generalized sense: Historical writing or records; history as a branch of knowledge, or as opposed to fiction. Also, the events recorded or proper to be recorded by historians: = HISTORY n. 4c. Obs.

4. a. A recital of events that have or are alleged to have happened; a series of events that are or might be narrated.

5. a. A narrative of real or, more usually, fictitious events, designed for the entertainment of the hearer or reader; a series of traditional or imaginary incidents forming the matter of such a narrative; a tale.

OED



I take it you're understanding is reached by number 4 or 5?

[Jayhawker Soule]

Well done - both in demonstrating your dictionary skills and your ability to evade the main point of the post. As you wish ...

[Nehustan]

Actually the Quran mentions him speaking as an infant, but its actually not at the same point, probably some years before the Temple incident.

"But she pointed to the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?" He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet and He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; (He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable; So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)" Maryam 19:29-33

To be honest, to get back to my original point, I think the signs of his being a scholar of scripture is all way through the gospels. Its just a shame we have it by way of whispers rather than by his own hand and inspiration.

[Nehustan]

Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule

Well done - both in demonstrating your dictionary skills and your ability to evade the main point of the post. As you wish ...

Somebody said (about 2 years ago), in regard to reading and acquisition of knowledge 'Simple ignorance is curable - willful ignorance is criminal.' In some situations I'd argue that simple ignorance is not curable. I’d have thought that the word ‘story’ being in ‘history’ was a bit of a giveaway?

And as to sidestepping, my faith is personal. I’m not looking to convert people, so what my fellows Muslims and I (who I was advising that it is unwise to look for error in the bible, and how the obvious faults in the gospels probably came about, i.e. whispers) believe or discuss is really neither here nor there.

[Nehustan]

And actually in another Surah it again speaks of him speaking in his infancy, and as a preacher, i.e. to the people, by which we can read a subtext that he was learnéd in scripture.

"Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah. He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous." Al-Imran, 3:45-46