conversation with Ali Sina (rituals, reject, Creator, paradise, mystic)

[ayani]

salam aleykum.

i would like to post a series of e-mail letters i wrote to Ali Sina, the creator of the site faith freedom.

Faith Freedom International

when i began writing to Mr. Sina, i was seriously doubting Islam, and went to his site to read about his opposition to Islam. in my initial letter, i thanked him for the existence of the site, as an avenue of critique and dialog. i do feel that the ability to critique any system of thought, or look objectively at it is vital for freedom of conscience. his site does raise many true points about sharia, the hadith, and Muslims' sometimes violent responses to situations where violence is unwarranted.

keep in mind that i am writing as a Quranic Muslim, initially a skeptical, near faithless one, later as one defending Islam and the Quran. i'll post each letter at a time

~~~

Dear Sir ~

i am writing to you to express thanks for your website, faith freedom. i am beginning to question Islam. there is much of the Quran that i find universalist, and encouraging. yet other things bother me.

the Quran says that faith is believing in God and all the messengers, and to deny one (e.g. Muhammed), is to deny God. i can not deny (and really, i am thankful) that Quranic language, philosophy, metaphor, and practice have become an integral part of my spiritual life. yet if i doubt the Quran, do i doubt God? the Quran itself names Jews, Christians, and Mandaeans as believers in God and promises them paradise if they are righteous and worshipful. at the same time, it states that to deny the prophet-hood of Muhammed and the divinity of the Quran is to deny God's existence- Jews, Madaeans, and Christians do not believe in the same messengers.

the Quran is remarkable in the true things that it says about God, and the clarity of its signs. it also says, to paraphrase, "yep, they're not going to like the verses about fighting... and many will disbelieve on that account, and choose (whether ideologically or physically) to stay back from fighting".

perhaps this is what i'm doing? there are verses that relate to the raiding of caravans and the holding of the possessions of those conquered in war, and also of killing and slaying captives. yet, it says in other parts that to kill is a great offense, that one is not to be aggressive, and that one must be patient in adversity, that God is enough of a supporter. so why, then, did Muhammed and the early Muslims not rely on God's mercy and help, instead of going into battle, if killing is such an offense to God?

much is not adding up for me right now. i work at an islamic school, and i love the sisters there- they are dear, and awesome, and count me as one of their own. yet i feel my faith in the Quran ebbing. i am glad your site is there, both for muslims, ex-muslims, and people of other faiths. whether or not one leaves islam as a faith, it is important to hold up a critical mirror to one's self, and allow one's self to doubt, and ask questions.

and i am left with the question, if the Quran is not from God, what or who are muslims worshiping? i conclude that to wish to know something of God is innate to human nature, and that perhaps God does and can speak through the Quran to some people- but that it is not His speech, per se. there are many times where i had asked (but perhaps not articulated) questions, and opened the Quran, to find the answer. yet God can not be limited to a single text, or the text will become a static idol. nor can God be limited to a single historical person.

what do you believe in, Sir? how do you understand God and faith?

peace be with you, and God's help and guidance.

~ grace

[ayani]

Dear Grace.

Muhammad had no understanding of God. This man was spiritually dead. His concept of God was primitive a darn stupid. Why you think there is some value in what he said? It is because it is the only paradigm you have. You grew up in a world that was influenced but the ravings of that insane man.

I know your thinking because I had them too. It took me time to realize everything that evil man said was lies. In fact Islam is blasphemy. See my debate with Maulana Ajmal Qadri, a Senior religious scholar of the Deobandi school.

Maulana Ajmal Qadri vs. Ali Sina

I showed that Islam is blasphemy by the very standard of Muslims.

My book, Understanding Muhammad is ready for reprint. It will be available through Amazon, and other major retailers. However, if you want to read it now, I can send a digitized format of it as a gift. If you read this book, you will come to see that Muhammad was a psychopath and not a prophet of God. He was a very ignorant man. This book will change the perception of anyone who reads it about Muhammad and Islam. It will leave no doubt in your mind that Muhammad was insane.

Let me know if you want the book.

Regards

Ali Sina

[ayani]

~~~~~~~~~~

Dear Mr. Sina ~

actually Sir, when i read the Quran, i read a lot of remarkably *true* things about God. the attributes given to God within the Quran i find to be subtle, descriptive, diverse, and many-hued.

al-hai, al-qayyum, al-rahman, al-rahim

what initially attracted me to the Quran itself was a message that was uniquely open-ended. what i disliked about other faiths was the emphasis on the "mesenger", while the Quran says :

and Muhammed is but a messenger, like many messengers that have passed before him. if he dies or is killed will you turn back on your heels? and whoever turns back on his heels, he will not harm God in the least. and God will reward the thankful. 3:144

so that's cool. Muhammed is just a man, and if he dies, it's not like God has died, and one has no reason to turn back from faith in Him. the verses about violence trouble me, yet the Quran also says clearly that violence is only to retaliate against attacks on the community. if we take the example of Cain and Abel given in the Quran, it is better to not raise a hand against one trying to kill *you*, but when the community is threatened, it's ok to take up arms against those who are also being aggressive.

at the same time, you know and i know that the Quran has been used to cause much violence and upset. have you read "the True Furqan"? what's interesting to me, is that is quotes from the Quran directly, saying the same "true" things about God that the Quran does, yet dismisses the violence and exposes the hypocrisy of Muslims who exactly don't follow the injunctions to "not be aggressive" and "there is no compulsion in religion".

i do have a lot of troubles with the history of the faith, but i know that i desire guidance and a straight path, and a walk with God. can i ask, after you left Islam Sir, where did you find yourself spiritually? did you become a Christian or another faith, or did you kind of drop off the spiritual radar?

peace, and many thanks ~ grace

[ayani]

I wrote my mystical experience after reading the Quran here.

from belief There are seven stages from belief to enlightenment. You'll find them in this article.
As for your conviction that the Quran has also some good insights into the nature of God, I cannot agree. Do you know God to make that evaluation? Do you have any other point of reference beside what Islam teaches? If not, they how can you be certain what Quran's definition of God is actually true? I have shown in various articles that Muhammad's had no understanding of God. Here is a list of such articles.

Why be Good if there is no Afterlife?
What is God?
Soul and Immortality
The Origin of God
Chance or Intelligence?
Life Beyond and the Single Principle.
The Purpose of Creation
The Evolution of Monotheism
God: Some Logical Difficulties

Did you read my discussion with the Pakistani grand cleric where I showed Islam is blasphemy? If you do you'd not say the Quran is "remarkably true" in describing God. What truth? That book is a hodgepodge of nonsense and asininity. The reason you think it is truth is because you have no other point of reference other than Islam itself. Have you noticed when you are sitting in a train in a station and your train starts moving, you can't really say that it is you who is moving or the train on the binary next to you? You can't say that unless you look at the ground or the building. It is only then that you know which one is moving. You need another point of reference to know the truth. The same is true about your concept of God. What Muhammad said about God is utter stupidity. The fact that over a billion people believe in this nonsense, does not make it true. Muhammad's god is a psychopath narcissist. He described his own self, because Allah was him and he was Allah.

Muhammad was a liar and a manipulative conman. If you read my book and my articles you will see the proof. However, if you think you know the truth already, there is nothing I can say to change your views. It is impossible to add to a cup that is already full.
Regards

Ali Sina

[ayani]

Mr. Sina, thank you for writing. let me go over your articles, and study what you've come to understand.

i'm reading your article now, and i agree with your hesitation on 5:51. i have some dear friends who are Christians, and my family are Christians, too. that's something to consider critically. the verse read "and do not take Jews and Christians, as allies, they are allies of one another". like you, i balk at this, yet have heard it stated that if the Jews and Christians are not simply "allies to one another" but open to dialogue with Muslims, then why would God prevent us from hanging out with them? then we have this verse :

so if they dispute with thee, say: "i have submitted my whole self to God and so have those who follow me." and say to the people of the book and to those who are unlearned: "do you also submit yourselves?" if they do, they are in right guidance, but if they turn back, your job is to convey the Message; and in God's sight are (all) His servants. 3:20

i point this out to emphasize that the point is to submit to God, and if they do this, cool, God will respond to them and guide them.

i'm reading now your aversion to 3:85, and i agree. yet there are also verses like 3:20, 2:62, and 2:256. so perhaps "islam" does not mean a world religion, but its meaning in arabic, "submission to God".

ok, i'm reading this from you, too :

"Isn't Allah the creator of the unbelievers too? Isn't he the god of everybody? Why he should be so unkind to the unbelievers? Wouldn't it be better if Muslims befriended unbelievers and taught them Islam by a good example?"

i find this tough, too. God has indeed created everybody, clearly. and anyone can clearly see that God *does* guide "unbelievers", otherwise they'd... not exist, or fall down dead.

here's this, though:

and if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection, then protect him so that he may hear the word of Allah; and afterward convey him to his place of safety. that is because they are a folk who know not. 9:6

so, i hear you on the nastiness towards "nonbelievers". yet here we have a verse saying to take them in and make them safe if they want protection, even if they don't believe, at least they can hear about God's unity. you mention Gandhi ~ yet Gandhi believed in One God, and was a Hindu. have you ever read the Bhagavad Gita, Sir? that book also talks about One God, unequivocally. Gandhi was also very peaceful, and pious. so i believe he's ok with God, God willing.

you also write

"Doubt is the greatest gift we can give to each other. It is the gift of enlightenment. Doubt will set us free, will advance knowledge, and will unravel the mysteries of this universe. Faith will keep us ignorant."

i agree that doubt is awesome, and a gift that we must allow ourselves to give, to ourselves, and others. we must give ourselves permission to doubt. faith, however, can and does go with doubt, a lot of the time. one can doubt and still long for faith, and seek God's guidance and presence.

you also write extensively on those verses calling for violence, and those do trouble me. a lot. the Quran does permit war. i've never been in a war, nor have i witnessed anyone i loved killed. the verses on violence, we should question, and read carefully. but you have been a Muslim for many years, and those verses that ask for violence, also follow up with urgings to seek peace and, as it were, "knock it off" if the other party one is fighting also inclines towards peace, and to "not be aggressive". so how can one not be aggressive in war?

i sympathize with your doubts, and am grateful that your site is there to *encourage* these doubts and this criticism. Muslims need it, everyone needs it. i don't claim to know truth, Sir, or to have any weight over your personal experience with Muslims, Islam, and Islamic culture and hypocrisy.

please, let's keep talking. i enjoy your writings, and your ideas, and your invitation to be objective and critical. i *know* that the griefs you express with the Quran are also the griefs felt by many doubting Muslims, and to get that out for discussion is good.

can i ask you again Sir, if it's not too personal, what is your spiritual life like, now? do you pray, or believe in a god? or have you kind of become agnostic or atheistic? may God, however you understand Him, bless and guide you, and help you in your life.

peace, Sir ~ grace

[ayani]

Dear Grace:

If you read my articled on God, the ones I sent you in my previous email, you'll get the answer to what I believe now.

Also if you read my book Understanding Muhammad, you will never say there is anything good in Islam. My book is a psychobiography of Muhammad. Once you understand the mind of that man, you will be able to interpret everything he said and why he said it. Muhammad will becomes to you an open book and you will never fall for his lies again. I have unraveled his mystique. I know the questions that boggles Muslims and in that book I have addressed them all Despite my repeated offer to send it to you for free, you did not ask for it, I assume you believe you have figured everything out and there is nothing anyone can tell you that could change your mind.

As for the verse 9:6 "And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know." This verse does not mean give protection to disbelievers. It means don't kill them yet until you give them the chance to submit, and if they do not convert kill them. This much is clear from the preceding verse where it says "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

Note The word highlighted in red. This means if they submit.

I don't know how much you wish to pull wool over your eyes and deceive yourself. You are the master of your own life and free do do as you please.

Kind regards

Ali Sina

[ayani]

Dear Mr. Sina

actually brother, the 9:6 does not say to kill him then, but to let him go on safely. belief or not.

the previous verses refer to peoples breaking alliances and being aggressive, whom one is fighting already. i hadn't realized this, but apparently the Quran was not revealed in ayat, but kind of in paragraphs. so really, to pick a "verse" on its own isn't really reasonable, as these things, if they were divinely revealed, didn't come down in separate flakes, but as whole ideas.

please do not assume that i feel i "have everything figured out". no one can claim rightly to have everything figured out. i don't think Muhammed lied, actually. my concern is whether or not he followed through on the Quran's own advise, in full.

from selected hadith, he had not. from other selected hadith, he had. as i read, the Quran says, if one reads things out fully, "fight those who fight you, and don't attack those who are not attacking you, and if they knock it off, you knock it off, too. it's not about theology, it's about defense and offense". like you said to Mr. Yuksel, one can find a "kind Muhammed" or a "cruel Muhammed" in hadith. what i like about this, is that we have the freedom to critically look at Muhammed, and we also have the Quran. whether one is a Muslim or not, God is not confined to Muhammed (not like an incarnation of deity), neither to the words of the Quran.

i'm not asking you to send me articles Sir, but to respond to my ideas and thoughts back to me, as a letter, as you think of them. i like your articles a lot though, and God willing will read over more of them, and respond to their ideas. what do you think of actually using Arabic to translate the word "islam" so that it means much more than just a monolith of traditions and rituals? for example, we have things like these written therein :

For every nation We have established rites which they are to fulfill. So do not let the matter fall into dispute. And call upon your Lord, for you are on a guidance which is straight.

it's not as though, from what i can see, the Quran wishes to make everyone into Arab Sunnis, you know? humans are different, diverse. the point, when i read the Quran, seems not to be Muhammed, but to be God, and worship of Him, and guidance.

i'm not asking you to convert me, Sir, or challenging myself to convert you. what i was hoping for was more of a dialogue in real time.

i'm looking back over the things i've written you, and in my first letter, i thanked you for the existence of free-minds as a gate to critical thinking, skepticism, and objective views of Islam. i also expressed doubts about the Quran, and you replied, essentially, with the "violent ayat". i had mentioned that i found them troubling and was skeptical as to why God would put these "verses" in a universal book. i do still wonder if the Quran is human or divine in origin, but in talking to you and hearing your objections, i can gain perspective as a non-believer. what makes sense to you, what totally doesn't, and why. thank you, shukran. it is good to be skeptical. and to use measure in determining right from wrong, and as you point out all over your website not letting culture bar you from objectivity or compassion. much of Islam that we see is culture, and divisive. that needs to be looked at objectively, do you not agree? like those Muslims who hassle women not wearing hijab. that's dumb. it's dress, it's culture, it's just her hair. to hassle her is not objective, nor reasonable, nor compassionate, yet we see many muslims doing it, especially in Iran with their "clothing police".

i have a question for you, in real time. do you think, if you were able to understand the Quran, or any other religious text, and its messages, like the Bhagavad Gita, would you accept and follow them, or do you think it's better to stay away from "holy books"? i can see how "holy books" can put blinders on people, and confine them to their words, and you point that out clearly in your website, too. people can get literal, orthodox, and cruel. what i like about free-minds is that is shows that clearly, in images and text, the hypocrisy and danger of those blinders.

peace, and let's keep talking to one another's ideas in real time. not that i'm adverse to an e-book, but it would be better for me if you spell out your criticism and thoughts as you write and read what i've written, so that i can also respond to them point by point, agree or disagree. i know what you think about Muhammed as an historical figure, and your criticisms of the adoration given to him and his "hadiths", as well as cherry-picking from the the Quran are both valid.

they may lead people from Islam, or lead them to skepticism, or not change faith. heck, perhaps God has given you the task of setting up that web-site so as to show people the dangers that do exist, and to encourage debate, as opposed to fear or rejection of qualms. i do believe that God can lead people from Islam [the organized religion], of course, to other faiths. like those Iranians who became Zoroastrians, like their ancestors, or those Muslims who convert to Christianity. God knows best who his servants are. so your site seems to be leading people from danger to safety, which is good. i believe God wants us to be safe, and just.

peace ~ grace

Mr. Sina has not yet written back to me. it seems he can not refute my questions, or the possibilities of Quranic interpretation that lean towards the (imo, rightly so) universalist and peaceful. a few days after writing to him, i felt much better about my faith. i began reading the Quran again, and talking with the sisters at my school about my brief crisis of faith. there are still issues i struggle with, but i'm asking God to help me understand them.

salam, and peace. please let me know what you guys think about this. ok?