Women and Masjids! (Earth, prophet, pray, worship, service)

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Originally Posted by champion

'Aaisha radhiya Allaahu 'anhu said (a small period of time after the Prophet's death): "If the Prophet knew what's become of the women, he would have forbid them from going to the Mosque". And that was during her time, radhiya Allaahu 'anha.

We're equal in what Allaah made us equal in. And different in what Allaah made is different in. And in this particular case, we're different. It's obligatory for a man to pray in the mosque. It's better for women to pray in their own homes. See the difference??

Salamu 'alaikum

While what you have said is true, not all women have a home with a husband, and an islamic environment that would render going to the masjid a simple luxury and choice. In other words the ideal of what islam is supposed to be like is not a reality in many many cases. So for the women who are unmarried, working, alone, or in any way not in an islamic environment, how is it that they can be quiet about it when their iman is at stake alot of times?

It is simply not possible to be quiet when so many of the women's rights are being violated all the time by the men who are supposed to be treating us the like humans and like sisters in Islam and not an object that can be treated any kind of way and it's okay.

You say it is an injustice but offer no solution other than for the women to have sabr. Sabr is beautiful but there is also a time to speak up, and stand up for what is right. It is our sabr and trying to have the benefit of the doubt that has given way for the men to trample our rights in the first place.

The saying of Aisha is how she personally felt, but the fact of the matter is the prohibition is not there. So therefore, the women are allowed to go to the masjid, and in most cases it isn't a luxury but a need just like the men need to strengthen their iman.

What muslims have to realize is that Islam of course has the ideal way that we should do all things. However, there are leniencies in deen that allow for the non-ideal situation to be alleviated. Here in America most of the indigenous muslims are 1st generational. We have no deeni environment to speak of except the one we try to make for ourselves. That won't happen unless we go to a masjid because more often than not, that's the only place we're even gonna see another muslim. The women are not excluded from this dilemma. Many women come into Islam on their own, and have no other alternative but to regularly attend the masjid to get any kind of deeni knowledge, or have any boost to the iman. Even many women who are married, do not receive the proper knowldege from their husbands, so she still has to go the masjid to get what she should be getting at home. I know for a fact many men who actively obstruct their wives from islamic knowledge period. She cannot make sabr over this, because her iman is decreasing all the time, and so many women eventually leave islam, because they know nothing about it, they are being mistreated, and as muslims we have to become concerned with that.


The females of the ummah have been muslim so long yet know nothing. The men by and large are holding this priceless knowledge hostage away from us. So many women I know do not know they have rights other than to obey their husbands at any cost. This is what they have been taught not knowing that it's not even true. A wife is obliged to obey her husband only where he is not misguiding her. She is not obliged to obey him if he tells her she cannot attend some classes or something, and at the same time he doesn't want to fill the gap either. So she is left on her own without knowledge. And after all that is said and done, she is told that she must have sabr and make dua, while not telling her that she can say something about her own treatment. Allah has not forbidden action upon a person even if they are making sabr. Having patience does not mean sitting idly by while you get stepped on. In this case it means to make dua to Allah about the situation, and then do whatever halal means you can to relieve it.

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Also along with everything I said above, I have to reiterate that the situation be treated as critical. Women are leaving islam in droves around me just as fast as they enter it. It is happening in large part because iman was never taught to them. What I mean by that, is that the importance of having and safeguarding iman is never stressed. Never a stress on how to obey Allah and please Allah, only a stress on how to obey the husband. This is because the men are giving "shahadah" to these women only to marry a "muslim". I put it into quotes because they only give half a shahadah knowing full well that the women have defects in aqeedah. The women often complain that they are getting worse treatment now that they are married to a muslim, then they were dating their kuffar boyfriends. I know ladies who have been "muslim" for years and cannot say salaat, because their husbands didn't teach it and did not allow them to seek knowledge for themselves. They even go so far as to make excuses to keep them from other women, perchance they learn something. So when the marriage fails (and it always does because it was founded on stupidity, oppression, and sexual lust), the women go back to what they know. They go back to kufr because they were never really muslim in the first place. They never really accepted any of it, and were non too pleased with their treatment- as they perceive- was due to it.

It is really a dire situation all around, and we cannot act blind as though it's only a few women having issues and they can handle it themselves. The men are largely to blame because they are called upon to set the tone so-to-speak, as to how much deen is practiced. You've got the men going crazy, so what of the women? It is nothing less than dhulm what is happening, and Allah does not like the dhalimoon.

[AbuQuteiba]

Originally Posted by fullyveiled muslimah

While what you have said is true, not all women have a home with a husband, and an islamic environment that would render going to the masjid a simple luxury and choice. In other words the ideal of what islam is supposed to be like is not a reality in many many cases. So for the women who are unmarried, working, alone, or in any way not in an islamic environment, how is it that they can be quiet about it when their iman is at stake alot of times?

It is simply not possible to be quiet when so many of the women's rights are being violated all the time by the men who are supposed to be treating us the like humans and like sisters in Islam and not an object that can be treated any kind of way and it's okay.

You say it is an injustice but offer no solution other than for the women to have sabr. Sabr is beautiful but there is also a time to speak up, and stand up for what is right. It is our sabr and trying to have the benefit of the doubt that has given way for the men to trample our rights in the first place.

The saying of Aisha is how she personally felt, but the fact of the matter is the prohibition is not there. So therefore, the women are allowed to go to the masjid, and in most cases it isn't a luxury but a need just like the men need to strengthen their iman.

What muslims have to realize is that Islam of course has the ideal way that we should do all things. However, there are leniencies in deen that allow for the non-ideal situation to be alleviated. Here in America most of the indigenous muslims are 1st generational. We have no deeni environment to speak of except the one we try to make for ourselves. That won't happen unless we go to a masjid because more often than not, that's the only place we're even gonna see another muslim. The women are not excluded from this dilemma. Many women come into Islam on their own, and have no other alternative but to regularly attend the masjid to get any kind of deeni knowledge, or have any boost to the iman. Even many women who are married, do not receive the proper knowldege from their husbands, so she still has to go the masjid to get what she should be getting at home. I know for a fact many men who actively obstruct their wives from islamic knowledge period. She cannot make sabr over this, because her iman is decreasing all the time, and so many women eventually leave islam, because they know nothing about it, they are being mistreated, and as muslims we have to become concerned with that.


The females of the ummah have been muslim so long yet know nothing. The men by and large are holding this priceless knowledge hostage away from us. So many women I know do not know they have rights other than to obey their husbands at any cost. This is what they have been taught not knowing that it's not even true. A wife is obliged to obey her husband only where he is not misguiding her. She is not obliged to obey him if he tells her she cannot attend some classes or something, and at the same time he doesn't want to fill the gap either. So she is left on her own without knowledge. And after all that is said and done, she is told that she must have sabr and make dua, while not telling her that she can say something about her own treatment. Allah has not forbidden action upon a person even if they are making sabr. Having patience does not mean sitting idly by while you get stepped on. In this case it means to make dua to Allah about the situation, and then do whatever halal means you can to relieve it.

Assalamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullah.

Ukhti, i understand the seriousness of the situation. That's why i called it "fitnah" in my first post. I only responded the way i did in my second post because of Jamaesi's ignorant reply.

Still, FVM. Who says that starting riots, and going out in the streets is a halaal (mashroo') way to accomplish things in Islam? I know of no scholar that says that public protests is a halaal way to accomplish anything. Not just for women, but for men as well. Especially, when the women (on that site), are uncovered, and without hijaab. The salaf, radhiya Allaahu 'anhum, never did anything like this. The sahaabiyaat, radhiya Allaahu 'anhunna, never got up and protested when they were not allowed to do jihaad. When we know that many women, are indeed capable of jihaad (fighting). The Prophet salla 'Allaahu 'alayhi wa sallam simply comforted them by saying: ((They have jihaad, with no fighting, Hajj, and 'Umra)). And that was the end of that.

Also, sister FVM, women are not the only ones being mistreated. This whole ummah, is being mistreated (by it's rulers, hadaahum Allaah, wa waffaqahum ila alkhayr). The Prophet salla Allaahu 'alayhi wa sallam said: ((You are not to disobey your ruler, even if he hit you, and took your money)) There are hundreds of ahadeeth which say that if the ruler is unjust, or is a thaalim (oppressor) to have patience, and make du'aa. We all have to abide by the teachings of the Prophet salla Allaahu 'alayhi wa sallam. In many Islaamic countries, men are taken to jail, and beaten, just because they grow their beards. I do not know of a single Muslim country that has oppened the door of Jihad, to help Muslims in need, in any country. Even when the jihaad is correct. But should we protest? No. Should we get out into the streets, and cause more fitnah? No. This is the teaching of the Prophet salla Allaahu 'alayhi wa sallam. We abide by his teachings, in all situations. I know that the examples i have given, are much deeper, than the situation at hand, but the way to solve the problem is the same.

And i agree. If there is any halaal way to fight this injustice, then go ahead and do so. A'aanakum Allaah. But public protests, is not one. Wallaahu 'alam. Wassalamu 'alaikum.

[AbuQuteiba]

Originally Posted by fullyveiled muslimah

Also along with everything I said above, I have to reiterate that the situation be treated as critical. Women are leaving islam in droves around me just as fast as they enter it. It is happening in large part because iman was never taught to them. What I mean by that, is that the importance of having and safeguarding iman is never stressed. Never a stress on how to obey Allah and please Allah, only a stress on how to obey the husband. This is because the men are giving "shahadah" to these women only to marry a "muslim". I put it into quotes because they only give half a shahadah knowing full well that the women have defects in aqeedah. The women often complain that they are getting worse treatment now that they are married to a muslim, then they were dating their kuffar boyfriends. I know ladies who have been "muslim" for years and cannot say salaat, because their husbands didn't teach it and did not allow them to seek knowledge for themselves. They even go so far as to make excuses to keep them from other women, perchance they learn something. So when the marriage fails (and it always does because it was founded on stupidity, oppression, and sexual lust), the women go back to what they know. They go back to kufr because they were never really muslim in the first place. They never really accepted any of it, and were non too pleased with their treatment- as they perceive- was due to it.

It is really a dire situation all around, and we cannot act blind as though it's only a few women having issues and they can handle it themselves. The men are largely to blame because they are called upon to set the tone so-to-speak, as to how much deen is practiced. You've got the men going crazy, so what of the women? It is nothing less than dhulm what is happening, and Allah does not like the dhalimoon.

Agreed. Baarak Allaahu feek. Wassalamu 'alaikum.

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Originally Posted by champion

The sahaabiyaat, radhiya Allaahu 'anhunna, never got up and protested when they were not allowed to do jihaad. When we know that many women, are indeed capable of jihaad (fighting). The Prophet salla 'Allaahu 'alayhi wa sallam simply comforted them by saying: ((They have jihaad, with no fighting, Hajj, and 'Umra)). And that was the end of that.

True but at the same time, the women did ask the Prophet about their role as women, to which he gave an astute reply. Also during that time, how could there be rampant injustice with prophet around? He was the amir-ul mumineen, and therefore would not have allowed the women to be by and large mistreated, or anyone for that matter. Unfortunately, that is not the case today. The amir, from the husband being the amir of his household, to leaders in power, are not of the same character. Some of them are doing the best they can to follow islam teachings, and they are the most successful in seeing to it that the rights of the people in the household are upheld. At the same time, if I've got an idiot tyrant for a husband there is no reason I should deal with that fi I have a recourse. I can and will make dua to Allah to help me, as per Allah's command to seek His help with patience and salaat. At the same time if I can get counseling to help my marriage I will. If it cannot be helped then I am free, as per the laws of deen, to get rid of him even if he refuse be the situation serious enough to warrant that step. The simple fact is that no amir over one person or a million has the right to forbid what Allah had ordained, nor the right to ordain that which Allah forbid.

What you have said by saying the ahadith about the rules for following an amir is true, but deen is about balance dear brother. We must not forget that prophet also warned that there is no obedience outside the obedience of Allah. We cannot obey anyone, not amir, not parens, not husband, not wife, not boss, nobody if their orders go directly contrary to that which Allah has ordered. As much weight as Allah lays on the obedience to the parent, even when they are not being the best parent, still obeying crazy orders from them is not allowed, and if they are truly being tyranical over you, you have the full right to remove yourself from that situation and still maintain respect. The same is for an amir of a place. We are obliged to follow and obey, but not where the amir orders us to disobey Allah nor the sunnah.


And btw I never said that making a scene was the best way to handle it. I have no idea what would be the best way for those particular ladies to handle the situation they are in.

[AbuQuteiba]

Originally Posted by fullyveiled muslimah

True but at the same time, the women did ask the Prophet about their role as women, to which he gave an astute reply. Also during that time, how could there be rampant injustice with prophet around? He was the amir-ul mumineen, and therefore would not have allowed the women to be by and large mistreated, or anyone for that matter. Unfortunately, that is not the case today. The amir, from the husband being the amir of his household, to leaders in power, are not of the same character. Some of them are doing the best they can to follow islam teachings, and they are the most successful in seeing to it that the rights of the people in the household are upheld. At the same time, if I've got an idiot tyrant for a husband there is no reason I should deal with that fi I have a recourse. I can and will make dua to Allah to help me, as per Allah's command to seek His help with patience and salaat. At the same time if I can get counseling to help my marriage I will. If it cannot be helped then I am free, as per the laws of deen, to get rid of him even if he refuse be the situation serious enough to warrant that step. The simple fact is that no amir over one person or a million has the right to forbid what Allah had ordained, nor the right to ordain that which Allah forbid.

What you have said by saying the ahadith about the rules for following an amir is true, but deen is about balance dear brother. We must not forget that prophet also warned that there is no obedience outside the obedience of Allah. We cannot obey anyone, not amir, not parens, not husband, not wife, not boss, nobody if their orders go directly contrary to that which Allah has ordered. As much weight as Allah lays on the obedience to the parent, even when they are not being the best parent, still obeying crazy orders from them is not allowed, and if they are truly being tyranical over you, you have the full right to remove yourself from that situation and still maintain respect. The same is for an amir of a place. We are obliged to follow and obey, but not where the amir orders us to disobey Allah nor the sunnah.


And btw I never said that making a scene was the best way to handle it. I have no idea what would be the best way for those particular ladies to handle the situation they are in.

Assalamu 'alaikum. Of course, ukhti. That's way the rule states: ((there is no obediance to the creation, when going against the creator [or something like that]))-(laa taa'ata li makhlooq fee ma'siyat alkhaaliq").

Jazaaki-Illaahu khayran. I don't know the best way for them to handle it either. I just advised them to have patience, and not to forget du'aa'. That's all i'm saying. You'll find, sister FVM, that you and i rarely disagree. Wallahu a'lam. Wassalamu 'alaikum.

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Originally Posted by champion

Jazaaki-Illaahu khayran. I don't know the best way for them to handle it either. I just advised them to have patience, and not to forget du'aa'. That's all i'm saying. You'll find, sister FVM, that you and i rarely disagree. Wallahu a'lam. Wassalamu 'alaikum.

I do not believe we are disagreeing at all actually. I feel we are simply looking at it from two different perspectives both of which are correct. Everything you have said in your posts is deen, so there is no way for me to refute it. I am talking about a person's ability (if they have it) to make an effort ALONG WITH making dua and sabr (what you are talking about), not instead of it. What I am saying is only a compliment to what you have said, not a contradiction of it sweetheart.

[AbuQuteiba]

Originally Posted by fullyveiled muslimah

I do not believe we are disagreeing at all actually. I feel we are simply looking at it from two different perspectives both of which are correct. Everything you have said in your posts is deen, so there is no way for me to refute it. I am talking about a person's ability (if they have it) to make an effort ALONG WITH making dua and sabr (what you are talking about), not instead of it. What I am saying is only a compliment to what you have said, not a contradiction of it sweetheart.

Heh, na'aam (yes). Baarak Allaahu feek.

[TashaN]

Do you think women have a right to build their own masjids if the men didn't allow them to attend?

If it's wrong, then why is that, if men ignored the instructions of prophet Mohammed when he said to the men to not prevent the women from attending the masjids of Allah?

If it's ok, then don't you think that all groups will think to build their own masjids in the future?

masjids for gays, masjids for seculars, masjids for ..... etc.

What do you think?

Wow, this is an amazing time which we live in.