A real muslim needed to enlighten me (hell, muslims, islam)

[Hema]

Another alternative might be for you to find out if the marriage can take place in another country. Find a nice location and you can stay for your honeymoon afterwards.

One of my father's cousins married a Muslim woman and he is Hindu. I was very little when they got married. I don't know everything that transpired but I do know that the ceremony I attended was an Islamic one. I cannot recall if they got married in Hindu rites also. I know that my father's cousin did not officially convert because he still has Hindu prayer meetings (poojas etc.) at their home.

[aneed2k]

I really don't want to leave the country and neither do I want to leave the religion that i was gifted with. I would really like to know how do i handle this in a more here and now basis rather than elude the problem and wait for someone else to find a solution. arent we all supposed to contribute something to the world and its development? well i would like too see this as my contribution to the beautiful world we live in.

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by aneed2k

ok.. i'd really love to know the benefits u mentioned in the above quote.. pls enlighten me.. and on top of that.. i also would like to know why is it forbidden, the marriage between a muslim and a non-muslim? can't we co-exist as just two human beings without the intervention of religion?

I believe that Islam see this as a respect for the non-muslim man because the children might end up being muslims, and the same can be said for the muslim girl and her children who might be hindus based on the way you raise them. I think this is not something against the concept of co-existance. I know that you don't care maybe what religion your children might adopt, but this is the general ruling on this matter. I can feel your frustration but you still young and there are things in life which we can't understand till we face it, and here Islam comes when it covers even the relationships between human beings so we don't end up hating each other, which is against co-existance of course.

To be honest with you, personally, i wouldn't allow my daughter to marry a non-muslim whatever the reason is and this is how any practicing muslim would feel. It's nothing personal but it's just about how we see this life based on God's guidance provided in his direct words to us. If God whom you and i believe in told us that we shouldn't get married with those whom their ideas about God conflict with ours, then who are we to reject what he says. He is God, and he knows better than us. That would be acceptable if God didn't warn us from doing it, but he already did and we should obey him to deserve his mercy and to be thankful to what he gave us.

Unlike Hinduism, Islam depends in the direct pure words of God as guidance, but i understand why it's difficult for you to understand the answers provided in Islam, because in Hinduism, there is so many school of thoughts that depends on philosophical aspects, and also because human beings (Brahmin for instance) do write the scriptures by themselves, but we only depend solely in the word of God revealed to his last Prophet, Mohammed "peace be upon him".

Do you think we should reject his great gift to us which is Islam?

You believe that the faith you have been raised at is a gift but i don't think God will judge us based on what our parents taught us, but based on what we really choose, because once we become adults, no one can force any belief upon us as you know.

another question is this.. according to islam.. doing good and good deeds are very important.. now i like to see me and my girlfriend as very good ppl.. we are loving and we both have never hurt another living creature and at all given opportunities, we lend a helping hand if we are able to... now i see us as a boon to humanity together.. we might probably be able to help more together rather than being apart.. so is her good deeds recognized by God and mine not?

Well, it depends on how you see this "recognition" by God. If you and your girlfriend did good things in this life so God also will provide you with the enjoyment in this life to the full. This life is nothing to God, and it doesn't weight even a wing of a mosquito to him, but of course, to us this life is huge, and some people even might believe that there is no life after death, etc. We all strive to get to God's heaven in the hereafter. Therefore, you don't have to worry whether you will get anything in return or not, because God made laws for this life, and anyone who do good will definitely earn goodness and respect.

Nevertheless, if you mean the recognition of your good work in a spiritual sense and in the hereafter, so neither you nor your muslim gf, nor any muslim in here would get God's recognition for his/her work if he didn't do it for the sake of God alone. Sometimes we say that we do that for humanity, or to feel good about ourselves, but in the other life, it's essential that you had a solid belief in God and that you did all what you did because your *intention* was to please God through doing goodness to his creatures, so the intention here is the most important factor in judging your work if you are talking about the other life.

Now, if you did a good work and your intention was for God's sake in the first place, then here we have to see if you are really doing what God wants from you. It doesn't matter to God "in the hereafter" whether you did good things in this life or not if you were refusing to answer his call to you. I'm not talking about you but of course in general. I'll give you an example, imagine that your mother ask you to obey her but you reject her and turn your face to the other direction, and ignore her totally, but then you go around and say mom, i'll do good stuff to people so then you would be happy for what i did. Here your mom will think like this, if you have not been any good to her, so it doesn't really matter whether you do good to those strangers outside or not. Here i'm not assuming that you are not doing any goodness to God, but all what i'm saying that God's direct pure words are in the Quran, and as you know Muslims follow the Quran, not because we made it up, but we believe that God is talking to us through the Quran, through his words, so you can imagine me or any other muslim now seeing a verse in the Quran telling him something, and you ask him to do the opposite, what will he do? I think the answer is clear.

We can see clearly in the Quran what God really wants from us, so we strive always to please him and obey his guidance for us, why to reject him gift? We truely believe that God is all knowing, and that he knows our past, present and future, so we would be really idiots if we didn't do what he says, i think that's so logical. Now, if you knew what God really wants, does it really matter what are our opinions?

Nonetheless, if you don't believe in God "just assume" so i would say go a head and do whatever you can to get your girl, because you love her, but if you really care about what God wants so you will find the answer clearly in the Quran "of course according to what we Muslims believe in".

Sometimes its tough, especially when its something releated to love, because we can't choose whom do we supposed to love and it just happen, but at the end of the day, when you really think of it, you will realize that life is full of pain and sacrifice as its full of love and passion. These are the rules of life, and we have to be good players not to be losers at the end.

I hope that you will forgive me for any mistake or any shortcoming in my part because i'm just 2 years older than you and i still have got alot of things to learn in this life. I don't speak of any authority because i'm not a scholar and all what i say is just based on how i see this matter, so please fogive me again if my answers weren't satisfactory to you, or my answers ended up to be wrong according to Islam teachings, because i'm still learning more and more about my religion, and about this life as well.

Originally Posted by aneed2k

I really don't want to leave the country and neither do I want to leave the religion that i was gifted with. I would really like to know how do i handle this in a more here and now basis rather than elude the problem and wait for someone else to find a solution. arent we all supposed to contribute something to the world and its development? well i would like too see this as my contribution to the beautiful world we live in.

If you don't want to leave the country nor your religion, so i think you don't have any more options left, in my humble opinion. So, you either have to remain lovers without marriage or to get separated and go on with this life. This might look cruel to some people, but i don't want to fool you, and i just want to be honest with you. At the same time, i don't want you to give up in case you believe that you didn't find the answer you are looking for in here, because that doesn't mean by anyway that there will be no more paths to go through and strive for what you really want.


Peace and blessing,
The Truth

[Peace]

Originally Posted by The Truth

I believe that Islam see this as a respect for the non-muslim man because the children might end up being muslims, and the same can be said for the muslim girl and her children who might be hindus based on the way you raise them. I think this is not something against the concept of co-existance. I know that you don't care maybe what religion your children might adopt, but this is the general ruling on this matter. I can feel your frustration but you still young and there are things in life which we can't understand till we face it, and here Islam comes when it covers even the relationships between human beings so we don't end up hating each other, which is against co-existance of course.

To be honest with you, personally, i wouldn't allow my daughter to marry a non-muslim whatever the reason is and this is how any practicing muslim would feel. It's nothing personal but it's just about how we see this life based on God's guidance provided in his direct words to us. If God whom you and i believe in told us that we shouldn't get married with those whom their ideas about God conflict with ours, then who are we to reject what he says. He is God, and he knows better than us. That would be acceptable if God didn't warn us from doing it, but he already did and we should obey him to deserve his mercy and to be thankful to what he gave us.

Unlike Hinduism, Islam depends in the direct pure words of God as guidance, but i understand why it's difficult for you to understand the answers provided in Islam, because in Hinduism, there is so many school of thoughts that depends on philosophical aspects, and also because human beings (Brahmin for instance) do write the scriptures by themselves, but we only depend solely in the word of God revealed to his last Prophet, Mohammed "peace be upon him".

Do you think we should reject his great gift to us which is Islam?

You believe that the faith you have been raised at is a gift but i don't think God will judge us based on what our parents taught us, but based on what we really choose, because once we become adults, no one can force any belief upon us as you know.




Well, it depends on how you see this "recognition" by God. If you and your girlfriend did good things in this life so God also will provide you with the enjoyment in this life to the full. This life is nothing to God, and it doesn't weight even a wing of a mosquito to him, but of course, to us this life is huge, and some people even might believe that there is no life after death, etc. We all strive to get to God's heaven in the hereafter. Therefore, you don't have to worry whether you will get anything in return or not, because God made laws for this life, and anyone who do good will definitely earn goodness and respect.

Nevertheless, if you mean the recognition of your good work in a spiritual sense and in the hereafter, so neither you nor your muslim gf, nor any muslim in here would get God's recognition for his/her work if he didn't do it for the sake of God alone. Sometimes we say that we do that for humanity, or to feel good about ourselves, but in the other life, it's essential that you had a solid belief in God and that you did all what you did because your *intention* was to please God through doing goodness to his creatures, so the intention here is the most important factor in judging your work if you are talking about the other life.

Now, if you did a good work and your intention was for God's sake in the first place, then here we have to see if you are really doing what God wants from you. It doesn't matter to God "in the hereafter" whether you did good things in this life or not if you were refusing to answer his call to you. I'm not talking about you but of course in general. I'll give you an example, imagine that your mother ask you to obey her but you reject her and turn your face to the other direction, and ignore her totally, but then you go around and say mom, i'll do good stuff to people so then you would be happy for what i did. Here your mom will think like this, if you have not been any good to her, so it doesn't really matter whether you do good to those strangers outside or not. Here i'm not assuming that you are not doing any goodness to God, but all what i'm saying that God's direct pure words are in the Quran, and as you know Muslims follow the Quran, not because we made it up, but we believe that God is talking to us through the Quran, through his words, so you can imagine me or any other muslim now seeing a verse in the Quran telling him something, and you ask him to do the opposite, what will he do? I think the answer is clear.

We can see clearly in the Quran what God really wants from us, so we strive always to please him and obey his guidance for us, why to reject him gift? We truely believe that God is all knowing, and that he knows our past, present and future, so we would be really idiots if we didn't do what he says, i think that's so logical. Now, if you knew what God really wants, does it really matter what are our opinions?

Nonetheless, if you don't believe in God "just assume" so i would say go a head and do whatever you can to get your girl, because you love her, but if you really care about what God wants so you will find the answer clearly in the Quran "of course according to what we Muslims believe in".

Sometimes its tough, especially when its something releated to love, because we can't choose whom do we supposed to love and it just happen, but at the end of the day, when you really think of it, you will realize that life is full of pain and sacrifice as its full of love and passion. These are the rules of life, and we have to be good players not to be losers at the end.

I hope that you will forgive me for any mistake or any shortcoming in my part because i'm just 2 years older than you and i still have got alot of things to learn in this life. I don't speak of any authority because i'm not a scholar and all what i say is just based on how i see this matter, so please fogive me again if my answers weren't satisfactory to you, or my answers ended up to be wrong according to Islam teachings, because i'm still learning more and more about my religion, and about this life as well.



If you don't want to leave the country nor your religion, so i think you don't have any more options left, in my humble opinion. So, you either have to remain lovers without marriage or to get separated and go on with this life. This might look cruel to some people, but i don't want to fool you, and i just want to be honest with you. At the same time, i don't want you to give up in case you believe that you didn't find the answer you are looking for in here, because that doesn't mean by anyway that there will be no more paths to go through and strive for what you really want.


Peace and blessing,
The Truth

well said!! May Allah bless you brother TT
Jazakallah khayran bro Faisal!!

Peace

[Hema]

Originally Posted by The Truth

Unlike Hinduism, Islam depends in the direct pure words of God as guidance, but i understand why it's difficult for you to understand the answers provided in Islam, because in Hinduism, there is so many school of thoughts that depends on philosophical aspects, and also because human beings (Brahmin for instance) do write the scriptures by themselves, but we only depend solely in the word of God revealed to his last Prophet, Mohammed "peace be upon him".

Hi Truth. Actually those are the Smriti texts. There are two types of texts in Hinduism. Smriti literally means: what is remembered. The Vedas which are the authority in Hinduism are Shruti texts. Shruti literally means: what is heard. At the beginning of each cycle of creation, the Vedas are manifested from Brahman - the Absolute Reality. The first Saints and Sages by meditating, heard the sounds of the universe and heard the Vedas. Therefore the Vedas are directly from God, they were not composed by humans. Also, if anything in a Smriti text contradicts the Shruti texts which are the Vedas, the Smriti is to be rejected and the Shruti accepted. Anyway, I just wanted to get that out.

aneed2k - I didn't mean to leave the country permanently. If you are going for a honeymoon anyway, you can have the ceremony in that country and just stay for the honeymoon.

What do your families suggest by the way?

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by Hema

Hi Truth. Actually those are the Smriti texts. There are two types of texts in Hinduism. Smriti literally means: what is remembered. The Vedas which are the authority in Hinduism are Shruti texts. Shruti literally means: what is heard. At the beginning of each cycle of creation, the Vedas are manifested from Brahman - the Absolute Reality. The first Saints and Sages by meditating, heard the sounds of the universe and heard the Vedas. Therefore the Vedas are directly from God, they were not composed by humans. Also, if anything in a Smriti text contradicts the Shruti texts which are the Vedas, the Smriti is to be rejected and the Shruti accepted. Anyway, I just wanted to get that out.

Thank you Hema for reminding me about this. I guess i still have to know more about hinduism, more than what i know. I might visit you in the Hinduism DIR soon.

The source of my statement was one hindu member in here, because he told me that his grandfather--he is Brahmin--write some scriptures, that's why. Thanks again for the additional information about this, and my point earlier was that how we "Muslims" believe, in term of the word of God which is the Quran.

In Islam, we believe that the earlier scriptures like Torah and Injil, etc which God revealed to his prophets--also those which God said in the Quran that he didn't mention, and the hindu scriptures and many others might be of the same nature--were for a specfic time and a specfic place but the last message by prophet Mohammed is the last message for all the worlds till the end of this life.

[jamaesi]

Originally Posted by aneed2k

I really don't want to leave the country and neither do I want to leave the religion that i was gifted with. I would really like to know how do i handle this in a more here and now basis rather than elude the problem and wait for someone else to find a solution. arent we all supposed to contribute something to the world and its development? well i would like too see this as my contribution to the beautiful world we live in.

Then do what feels right for the both of you, no one here or anywhere can figure it out for you.

[aneed2k]

i must admit that some replies i received earlier got me a little upset and emotional because i found them judgmental and prejudice but some how u have managed to put it into a way that its now up for a definitional debate.. i really liked the part where u brought in the part about a mother and a son disobeying her, which has so much relevance to what i believe in.

i have noticed that no matter the circumstances, u seem to speak in a calm and fair manner and i give u a lot of respect for that. pls understand that i am just here for answers and some of my questions might be offensive to u but i dont know what i am asking. i am merely asking for self benefit. but at the same time i also am here to share my thoughts on how the world is supposed to be. therefore i see it as a win/win situation as i am sure that my way of thinking will benefit mankind as a whole as well as many respective religions.

The emotional side of me is not even affected yet. as we speak, my girlfriend is also reading this forum, i am sure as my nickname, aneed2k, happens to pop up a lot on the internet, especially in malaysia. i frequent many forums and blogs and i try my best to raise malaysia as a country and not just independent state. we all know that indonesia is also an independent state but i dont want malaysia to fall into the same soup that they have in the past decade. thus not only me,a non-muslim, is listeniing to u but also a fellow liberal muslim is on the prowl to heed to what u say. judgmental and prejudice comments will not get anywhere near us unless u really make sense like how The Truth has made. i beg u. i have come to ur forum and i am asking u for guidance and i know it is all of ur duty as a muslim to guide me.

i have so many questions in my mind now, so many things i want to clear. i hope u are patient enough with me. i am too tired now to think and ask u but i promise i will reply u as soon as i awake from my slumber. i also would like to thank hema for helping me raise questions. ur thought and rebuttals have really kindred some brain storms in me. i really look forward to more beautiful comments by u. before i end this i would like to say that i did understand what u meant hema but i want my kids and my spouse and of course myself to live a happy and free life in this country called malaysia. that is why we would really like this union to happen here, in malaysia. thank u all so much once again...