What is the importance of women? (priest, ritual, tradition, beliefs)

[chamberlain]

From an Islamic point of view, what is the importance of women.
And do they have the same rights as men.

[DontFearMe]

From an Islamic point of view, what is the importance of women.

Thank you for you inquiry. Lets hope these answers will fulfill them. The importance of women. Wow. Let me start of by saying women are sooooooooooo important. Women are the backbone in the home. The prophet was once asked who is most worthy of companionship, he answerd, "you're mother." As a mother, wife, sister, or whatever your role in society is needed, and your role in your family is needed.

Quran 30.21: And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect.

Take a good look at this part: that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them. You know, in many cases today, and in most cases of the past, the man was the provider of his household. He would go out in the grit to make ends for his family. And when he comes to his home, there is his wife for him to dwell in peace. This is an important verse in the quran. God did create woman from man and one reason God states is that the man may find peace in her. Reflect on this please. Both men and women are important in society chamber. My nature as a woman and your nature as a man are different, that is why we compliment eachother. Reflect on this. Imagine a man is married to a woman and she behaves like a man. I dont think that this would make a man very happy. He's already a man, he doesn't want to be married to a woman who acts like one! So the beauty lies in our differences as man and woman. And as a woman in Islam, I know my role is vital in society. As a wife to take care of my man when he would come home tired, hungry, maybe upset. He should find peace when he comes home. And as a mother (im not), I know my role is vital to the well being of my children physically, mentally, and spiritually. So the importance of women in LIFE, not just islam, is there. Our nature permits us to do things a certain way. So, I would stop short of saying the importance of women in Islam, but rather reflect on the importance of women in LIFE.

And do they have the same rights as men.

In some cases they have the same rights, and in some they do not. In some cases men have the same rights as women, and in some they also do not. First, we have to acknowledge that men and women are NOT the same. If we cannot do this we can't move on. But if you can, let us go. There is a myth here in the west that men and women are indeed the same and whatever a man can do, a woman can do. I have to disagree with this.

Let me add a word to your question, duties. Women for the most part in islam have the same religious duties to perform as men do. She has to do her prayers, give alms, make a pilgrimage, etc. And some things she does not have to do. For example she does not have to go to Friday sermon and prayers. She can go if she chooses and many do. But some do not want to drag their children along to something of such a serious nature. I think also you want to address the issue of husband and wife.

First, a woman can refuse any marriage she chooses. When she does get married her husband has to give her what we call a 'mahr.' This is not exactly the same as a dowry. A dowry techincally is money or property given by the woman or her family to her husbad. In islam the mahr is a gift given by the husband to his wife. He HAS to give her this. If she requests a furniture set, kitchen set, or whatever it is her right. However, she shouldnt ask anything out of his means. There is also a marriage contract to be made and signed before the marriage. In this the man and woman lay out their rights. However, for the most part this contract usually lays out the woman's request. hehe.

A woman also has the right to her own money. She is not required to use any of it for houshold expenses. This is the man's job. She has the right to home, food, clothing from her husband. You know chamber, I think you would rather know about the duties of a wife to her husband and vice versa yeah? Because to say rights is general if you will. I mean the jist of it is the woman has the right to be taken care of! This is a big responsiblity on a man, she shouldn't make it any harder for him than it is. If you can ask your questin again and not make it so general but rather make it more focused on a particular subject it might be easier for me to answer. Here are some sayings by the prophet:

The believers who have the best manners are those who have the most perfect faith. The best amongst you are the best towards their wives.’

‘Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should not harm his neighbors. And I command you to take good care of the women.’

A man asked the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), “Whom should I honor most?” The Prophet replied, “Your mother.” “And who comes next?” asked the man. The Prophet replied, “Your mother.” “And who comes next?” asked the man. The Prophet replied, “Your mother.” “And who comes next?” asked the man. The Prophet replied, “Your father.”

Please chamber if there is something i didnt cover let me know. specifics help me. peace

[chamberlain]

Thanks for your great answers.
I have more questions though. Before you read them, I am not here to belittle anyones beliefs or offend anyone. I am just researching.

Anyway, so yeah, I agree that men and women are different and in a marriage sense compliment eachother. Still, can a single woman (or married) be a priest or have ambition (and follow it through) in to the highest levels of politics, business or sport for example?

Also, is it alright for women to beat there wives? Because I found this a bit disturbing."Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)," (4:34).

Whats your take on this?

Gratefully awaiting your answers,

Chamberlain

[DontFearMe]

Anyway, so yeah, I agree that men and women are different and in a marriage sense compliment eachother.

I am actually pleased to hear that. Many people think women are just the same as men, just as strong as men, just as capable in everything as men. Simply not true.

Still, can a single woman (or married) be a priest or have ambition (and follow it through) in to the highest levels of politics, business or sport for example?

Well, there is no such thing as a priest in Islam. And there is no religious hierarchy. What we do have is a scholarship. Men and women who have studied Islamic texts for years at schools and so forth. So yes, there are many scholars who are female. Now, there is something we do call Imams. They lead us in prayer in the mosque are also knowledgable in Islam. A woman does not lead prayers in a group of men. This is not to belittle a woman of course. This is sunnah or tradition. The man has been put in the position of leadership, even leading prayers. This tradition of the prophet is highly respected by muslims and we do not want to violate it. So yes, a woman can aquire scholarship in Islam. Companions of the prophet used to seek out his wife Aisha for answers to many issues on Islam. Now as for politics, business, and sport it all depends. There is no restraint here on anything. The only restraint would be if she has a husband and children. Most muslim wmen I know choose to put their family first, not their careers. It would really depend on the pros and cons discussed between her and her husband. She should do what is best for her family. Khadija, wife of the Prophet ran her own business. And sports, well, it depends on if we are violating any tenets of Islam. If not, then it's ok. However, a modest woman would not like to be seen exposing her body as they do in swimming, volleyball, or whatever. And as this is how it is, it would be wrong for her to enter into something like that.

Whats your take on this?

I am assuming you meant is it alright for men to beat their wives. As I stated earlier there is something we call sunnah or tradition of the Prophet. We do not take verses from the Quran and interpret them how we feel like, but rather we look at this tradition to see how the prophet explained and practiced these verses. I agree, it does sound disturbing off hand, but if you look into the tradition you will understand what this means. First let me say the arabs were a people who didnt have any regard for women as one of the best friend's of the prophet stated:

Then Umar added, "By Allah, in the Pre-lslamic Period of Ignorance we did not have regard for women until Allah revealed regarding them what He revealed and assigned for them what He has assigned.

It is noted that in the pre-islamic period of ignorance men beat their wives without any regard. As for this verse in question, I will provide you with the tradition of our Prophet.

The word "beating" is used in the verse, but it does not mean "physical abuse". The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) explained it "dharban ghayra mubarrih" which means "a light tap that leaves no mark". He further said that face must be avoided. Some other scholars are of the view that it is no more than a light touch by siwak, or toothbrush.

I hope that clears up your misperceptions. I know what you were thinking. However here are some more thoughts:

In one hadith he expressed his extreme repulsion from this behavior and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?”

"Some (women) visited my family complaining about their husbands (beating them). These (husbands) are not the best of you."

'A'isha reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) never beat anyone with his hand, neither a woman nor a servant

With that said and done I would like to further explain this verse.
As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct

This verse is refering to open lewdness. Note that there are steps to be taken here if this occurs. Again we have looked upon the traditions to tell us.

[chamberlain]

Ok undertsood your first point but why aren't women ever to be leaders in this case?

Also i am still troubled that allah allows any physical violence towards women in a marriage sense. Even if it is a "light tap".
Anyway lets not revisit this point.
Why are muslim men allowed many wives? (if thats true? i haven't researched that, its what i have heard)

Any thoughts? (or hopefully reasons you can base round scripture)

the Lord Christ bless you,

Chamberlain

[DontFearMe]

Ok undertsood your first point but why aren't women ever to be leaders in this case?

We like to preserve the tradition and not violate it. There is nothing degrading about it to us. Howver I'm not sure about your confusion as you can read 1Corinthians 14:34

Why are muslim men allowed many wives? (if thats true? i haven't researched that, its what i have heard)

The question is why? Well, God made it permissible for them to have up to 4 restricting unlimited polygamy. However, God has also said that if they cannot do justice between their wives, then marry only 1. Why is it allowed? The quran does not say why. In the bible it is allowed, nor does the bible say why. Most men cannot stand the stress of 4 wives, or even 2, so most take only 1. And since a woman cannot be forced into marriage, it is ultimately her decision if she wants to be the 2nd wife, 3rd wife, 4th wife to a man, that's her choice.


thank you

[chookyman]

Look, there is more to the story about why men can marry four ways. A lot of had to do with history in the making and the spreeding of islam (also refered to the sword of islam) in the beginning days.

In the early times when people sort the head of the messanger for him trying to spreed the word of islam, to other was refered to as blasphemy by the messanger, many men lost their lives (the battle of macca for instance and all the other battles mentioned in the koran).

Faced with the situation that the population of the men suffered heavey casualties, the messanger simply introduced an old practice of the rich located in the bible stating that men could marry 4 wives. Realising the effect it had on rapid population regenaration, muslims and the messanger realised how effective this was in spreeding islam's roots.

Even in a modern society where such an act is considered outdated, muslim men still feel it there right to still marry more then one wife and they do their duty by helping increase the population of muslims... A lot of what you read in the koran should be taken with care, because the messanger uses allah as a means of justifying his religion... Islam is merly just another cult religion that jas now been accepted over time as just another religion.

I can right a holy book and say god says do this, and god say to that and there are people out their who will believe my deception and over a long period of time my religion becomes accepted as a major religion of the world....

[DontFearMe]

Look, there is more to the story about why men can marry four ways. A lot of had to do with history in the making and the spreeding of islam (also refered to the sword of islam) in the beginning days.

That is a lie. You have no text to back yourself up

In the early times when people sort the head of the messanger for him trying to spreed the word of islam, to other was refered to as blasphemy by the messanger, many men lost their lives (the battle of macca for instance and all the other battles mentioned in the koran).

I did not understand what you just said.

Faced with the situation that the population of the men suffered heavey casualties, the messanger simply introduced an old practice of the rich located in the bible stating that men could marry 4 wives. Realising the effect it had on rapid population regenaration, muslims and the messanger realised how effective this was in spreeding islam's roots.

This is another lie. Again you have no text to support you.

4.3: If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four

Aisha the wife of the prophet has explained what this verse means.

'Urwa b. Zubair reported that he asked 'A'isha about the words of Allah:" If you fear that you will not be able to maintain equity amongst the orphan girls, then marry (those) you like from amongst the women two, three or four." She said: O, the son of my sister, the orphan girl is one who is under the patronage of her guardian and she shares with him in his property and her property and her beauty fascinates him, and her guardian makes up his mind to marry her without giving her due share of the wedding money and is not prepared (to pay so much amount) which anyone else is prepared to pay and so Allah has forbidden to marry these girls but in case when equity is observed as regards the wedding money and they are prepared to pay them the full amount of the wedding money and Allah commanded to marry other women besides them according to the liking of their heart. 'Urwa reported that 'A'isha said that people began to seek verdict from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) after the revelation of this verse about them (orphan girls) and Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, revealed this verse:" They asked thee verdict about women; say: Allah gives verdict to you in regard to them and what is recited to you in the Book about orphan woman, whom you give not what is ordained for them while you like to marry them" (iv. 126). She said: The wording of Allah" what is recited to you" in the Book means the first verse, i. e." if you fear that you may not be able to observe equity in case of an orphan woman, marry what you like in case of woman" (iv. 3). 'A'isha said: (And as for this verse [iv. 126], i. e. and you intend" to marry one of them from amongst the orphan girls" it pertains to one who is in charge (of orphans) having small amount of wealth and less beauty and they have been forbidden that they should marry what they like of her wealth and beauty out of the orphan girls, but with equity, because of their disliking for them.

Narrated Aisha"

(regarding) the Verse: 'And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans...' (4.3) It is about the orphan girl who is in the custody of a man who is her guardian, and he intends to marry her because of her wealth, but he treats her badly and does not manage her property fairly and honestly. Such a man should marry women of his liking other than her, two or three or four.

Wedding money refers to the money or gift the man is required to give to his wife at marriage. Some guardians over orphans did not want to do that, so were forbidden from marrying them. This is the explanation of the verse by Aisha.

I would also like to add something about orphans. They were one of the most vulnerable people in arab society. They were one of the most ill treated peoples in the arab society as well. But when Islam came, it took care of that.

Seest thou one who denies the Judgment (to come)?
Then such is the (man) who repulses the orphan (with harshness),
And encourages not the feeding of the poor.
So woe to the worshippers
Who are neglectful of their prayers,
Those who (want but) to be seen (of men),
But refuse (to supply) (even) neighbourly needs. Quran 107

Even in a modern society where such an act is considered outdated,

Outdated by who? The West? The west is not the entire world. So who cares what the west would think. They also think its ok to sleep around with people.

muslim men still feel it there right to still marry more then one wife and they do their duty by helping increase the population of muslims... A lot of what you read in the koran should be taken with care, because the messanger uses allah as a means of justifying his religion... Islam is merly just another cult religion that jas now been accepted over time as just another religion.

Actually, most men do not have more than one wife. Due to the financial, emotional, and physical stresses of it. So you are lying as usual.

Anyways, i have given the explanation of the verse. thank you

[chamberlain]

With regards to polygamy; you said "In the bible it is allowed, nor does the bible say why." Where does it say this?

"Why is it allowed? The quran does not say why."

Is it feasable that this is because a man made this law? (Think about this open mindedly, im not trying to offend anyone)
In the Law you can see reasons for Gods Laws. eg dont kill (because it hurts people and it will come back to you) or dont steal (because it hurts people and it will come back to you). However "Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four" (i don't see any good reason).
And I personally see God as a being of reason. Which is why i dont understand why God would allow it.

Christ bless

Chamberlain

[DontFearMe]

With regards to polygamy; you said "In the bible it is allowed, nor does the bible say why." Where does it say this?

There are many references for instance in Genesis of polygamy. Even Abraham had more than 1 wife. Read genesis, you will see plenty of examples of polygamy and concubines. And, orthodox jews are allowed more than one wife. Some jews even told me that there are some orthodox in Israel who still practice it as well. Because it wasnt forbidden in their 'old testament.'

Is it feasable that this is because a man made this law? (Think about this open mindedly, im not trying to offend anyone)
In the Law you can see reasons for Gods Laws. eg dont kill (because it hurts people and it will come back to you) or dont steal (because it hurts people and it will come back to you). However "Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four" (i don't see any good reason).
And I personally see God as a being of reason. Which is why i dont understand why God would allow it.

First of all, those various laws you are quoting from Exodus, 10 commandments. Just like it says, they are COMMANDMENTS, orders from God. Marrying more than one woman is not a commandment nor an order, it is an option.
After the Battle of Uhud, many of the men were killed. Due to this there were many widows left behind, women without husbands, children without fathers. To take one of these widows as a wife and provide for her was a service to the community, not a thorn in the community. Again, it was indeed the choice of these women to be a 2nd wife, because muslim women cannot be forced into marriage. Now, why would a woman choose to be a 2nd wife? There can be many reasons for that, and I dont want to get into it.

And in my previous posting that verse is explained by Aisha.