2nd attempt, would someone help me to understand this please? (ritual, Earth)

[*Paul*]

THOSE WHO HOLD BACK FROM HIJRAH (MIGRATION)
It is not permissible for the Muslim to re- side in the lands of the disbelievers when there are Muslim lands that exist. This is especially so if his residence in the lands of disbelief will involve him in fitnah [trouble for his religion]. Allaah does not accept the excuse of those refrain from making Hijrah (migration). Thus. Allaah informs us that the angels will reproach this group of people at the time of death and they will not accept their excuses when they plead to them saying that they were oppressed in the land.
Allaah says (which means): Verily as for those who the angels take in death while they are wronging themselves, they say to them: "in what state were you?" They reply: "We were weak and oppressed in the land." They (angels) say: "Was not Allaah's Earth spacious enough for you to migrate?" Such men will find their abode in Hell-what an evil destination! Except the weak among men, women and children who cannot devise a plan nor are they able to make their way. Surat An-Nisaa (4:97-98)
Allah does not accept excuses from such individuals, except for those who are weak and can not find the method to leave, and they are not able to make away by which they will be directed to the land of Islaam. [Note from the editors: this is a general rule that has been under-explained here. One is encouraged to see what the great wise scholar Ibn'Uthaymeen explained about related guidelines in the book "Explanation of the Three Fundamental Principles of Islaam" (al-Hidaayah Publishing)]

http://www.allaahuakbar.net/scholars..._hell_fire.htm

Is this saying that if Muslims are being persecuted in a non muslim country they should live in a Muslim one? And if you don't you will find you're abode in Hellfire??

[Djamila]

It's my understanding that this verse explains that Muslims who live in areas where they are oppressed, but have the opportunity to leave and live their faith more fully, have committed a great sin.

The Quran does clarify that this does not apply for those men, women, and children who had no way out - for example, the genocide in Bosnia.

This verse, though, in my opinion, applies more to a country like Taliban Afghanistan than to the United States. A Muslim can live in the United States with very little negative impact on their faith. A Muslim woman in Taliban Afghanistan was a piece of furniture, a slave - there is no way she was free to develop within her faith.

She also, though, had no reasonable way out.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that this verse evokes no great fear in me. If Bosnia was still communist, and if the country had ever tried to erradicate religion as the Soviet Union did, then presented with this verse I would be absolutely terrified for my salvation. But our circumstances have changed.

[Djamila]

I've thought of a way to state my opinion more clearly. This verse says that if you live in a place where your faith is oppressed, where you're more or less forbidden to be a Muslim, and use that as an excuse to just go about your life and make no effort to change the situation or flee to a country where you can enjoy religious freedom - then you're ****ed.

[maro]

travelling and migration to non islamic countries is not prohibited in islam ,not to mention that there are a lot of muslims who were born in non islamic countries , and live there as a minority ,

the verses here are stressing on the idea, that the first priority of the muslim in this life , must be to abide by his religious values and virtues ,
and that the real muslim should really consider this as a priority to him ,

so , if there is some reason that restricts him from doing that while living in a non islamic country ,then he should leave to an islamic country , or any other country where he can freely practice his religion without any restrictions or temptations ,

And if he is able to travel to where he can make his religion a priority , and he didn't do that , then there will be no excuses accepted from him

(the truth in what i said is from god , and the wrong is from myself )

[maro]

to be more clear,
being weak and oppressed in this land , will not be accepted as an excuse , for not abiding by God's orders , as long as they could have left

[*Paul*]

Thank you Djamila and Maro, of course your explanation puts a slightly different slant on the verse than the site that i copied it from does, i guess it depends on how you define fitnah.
So lets say there is a muslim man living in las vegas, there are loose women everywhere, gamblers, drug users and very few muslims to help encourage him to live as a muslim should. Is it then a command on the man to live in a muslim country? What kind of trouble is meant by fitnah is it just physical persecutiion?

[Cordoba]

Hello Paul

I had a friend who lived in Las Vegas with his family for a couple of years

He was teaching Arabic and was an Imam in one of the mosques there. He had no problem at all and was able to practice Islam.

Had it been the opposite case, it would have been better for him to move elsewhere

[Djamila]

Originally Posted by *Paul*

Is it then a command on the man to live in a muslim country?

Not really, because such a man is still free to live an Islamic lifestyle, as fully and completely as humanly possible. Las Vegas, and America in general, affords a Muslim full religious freedom.

Now, if he was forced by the government to spent every night drinking and gambling at the casino while his wife and daughters worked as a topless showgirls in the ballroom - that would be different. That would be persecution and that is the type of situation such a man would be required to fight against or flee from.

But simply living in Las Vegas is not persecution, it's merely exposure to other ways and styles. It probably would even help a Muslim man live a more Islamic lifestyle.

[fullyveiled muslimah]

So lets say there is a muslim man living in las vegas, there are loose women everywhere, gamblers, drug users and very few muslims to help encourage him to live as a muslim should

This would count as a fitnah. Especially if being in such an environment wears away at his iman. We as muslims are encouraged by the prophet to associate ourselves with people and environments conducive to islamic lifestyle and encouragement to iman. If this man found himself spritually taking a beating by living in a condition that essentially eroded his level of iman he is required to move. Let's say this environment eventually takes its toll to such an extent that he finds himslef invovled in major sin on a regular basis, where before he was not involved in such practices. This indicates lower iman, and therefore he must leave the environment altogether.

He doesn't have to live in a whole new country, but anyplace where the surroundings are better suited for muslim life. If he remains in the place that has been a factor in encouraging sinful practice, and he let's it go like that, Allah does not accept his excuses for being involved with such practices. Instead Allah punishes that person because of their willingness to live such a life of disobedience, regardless of the fact that he could have just as well done something about it.

It demonstrates contentment with disobedience to Allah, but a muslom should never be content to disobey Allah's commandments.


The word fitnah is considered any type of trouble that affects one adversly spiritually or physically, or that takes a muslim out of character. There are different levels and types of fitnah. For example the coming of dajjal is a major fitnah to the world. For through his misguidance many will be led to hellfire to remain. Being involved in major sin is a personal spiritual fitnah, for it diminishes one's iman, and gains the displeasure of Allah.

[*Paul*]

Originally Posted by fullyveiled muslimah

This would count as a fitnah. Especially if being in such an environment wears away at his iman. We as muslims are encouraged by the prophet to associate ourselves with people and environments conducive to islamic lifestyle and encouragement to iman. If this man found himself spritually taking a beating by living in a condition that essentially eroded his level of iman he is required to move. Let's say this environment eventually takes its toll to such an extent that he finds himslef invovled in major sin on a regular basis, where before he was not involved in such practices. This indicates lower iman, and therefore he must leave the environment altogether.

He doesn't have to live in a whole new country, but anyplace where the surroundings are better suited for muslim life. If he remains in the place that has been a factor in encouraging sinful practice, and he let's it go like that, Allah does not accept his excuses for being involved with such practices. Instead Allah punishes that person because of their willingness to live such a life of disobedience, regardless of the fact that he could have just as well done something about it.

It demonstrates contentment with disobedience to Allah, but a muslom should never be content to disobey Allah's commandments.


The word fitnah is considered any type of trouble that affects one adversly spiritually or physically, or that takes a muslim out of character. There are different levels and types of fitnah. For example the coming of dajjal is a major fitnah to the world. For through his misguidance many will be led to hellfire to remain. Being involved in major sin is a personal spiritual fitnah, for it diminishes one's iman, and gains the displeasure of Allah.

That is what I felt was involved too (but what would i know). Not only physical persecution and prevention from practicing his religion but also a spirtual oppression. I don't think that in a muslims case the arguement that it was so hard to live as a good muslim would hold much sway with allah when he had provided places where they could practice it strictly. (I'm speaking completely hypothetically here of course).

By the way, did any of you check out the website where i got this from? What did you think? There were some fun things for me to read as a Christian in there i can tell you.