Born sinful? (Jesus, ritual, homosexual, sin, spiritual)

[Daystar]

I was wondering if Muslims believe that everyone is born sinful. Christians believe this, not only on the basis of scripture (Rom. 5:12), but on behvaior and thought patterns that manifest themselves early in life.

thank you

[_salam_]

Originally Posted by Daystar

I was wondering if Muslims believe that everyone is born sinful. Christians believe this, not only on the basis of scripture (Rom. 5:12), but on behvaior and thought patterns that manifest themselves early in life.

thank you

No, Muslims don't beleive in origonal sin.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by Daystar

Christians believe this, not only on the basis of scripture (Rom. 5:12), but on behvaior and thought patterns that manifest themselves early in life.

Daystar (beautiful name!), can you elaborate on what you mean by the "behavior and thought patterns that manifest themselves early in life"?

[Daystar]

Originally Posted by _salam_

No, Muslims don't beleive in origonal sin.

But doesn't behavior indicate that the nature to sin is present even at a very young age? Why is it that children (and us adults) have to be taught to be good. Aren't they naturally bad? I know Muslims don't accept the New Testament, but it does teach that man is inherently sinful (Rom. 5:12).

[Green Gaia]

The Muslim forum is not a debate forum.

[_salam_]

Originally Posted by Daystar

But doesn't behavior indicate that the nature to sin is present even at a very young age? Why is it that children (and us adults) have to be taught to be good. Aren't they naturally bad? I know Muslims don't accept the New Testament, but it does teach that man is inherently sinful (Rom. 5:12).

Your right that people have to be taught what is right and wrong, however this doesn't mean that if a person isn't taught right from wrong that they are a sinner automatically. A small child that is faced with a situation that he has never come across before might naturally choose to do the right thing over the wrong thing. And in Islam we don't hold something against someone if they didn't know any better. The general belief is that a person isn't really accountable for their sins until they reach puberty or mental maturity. In fact it's not really right for us to be going around and judging peoples actions anyway. If that person knows what they are doing is right or wrong then thats for God to judge, it's between them and God, not us.

[Daystar]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Daystar (beautiful name!), can you elaborate on what you mean by the "behavior and thought patterns that manifest themselves early in life"?

Yes, Sunstone, and thank you for the compliment. If you put two young tots in a crib and put some toys in with them, it won't be long before they begin to manifest a selfish and aggressive nature. This means they will demonstrate the desire to possess, rather than the nature to give. Sooner or later, there will be whining, even grabbing, if one doesn't have his way. The point is, who taught these tots to consider self above others and whine when they don't get their toy? Young children don't have to be taught how to be selfish or bad, but they do need to be taught how to be good. This I believe is the manifestation of the sin nature which is self-oriented. Why don't tots have the nature to share? Jesus exemplified selflessness, which always looks to the interest of others, and it is this basic nature that man is not born with.

[Daystar]

Originally Posted by _salam_

Your right that people have to be taught what is right and wrong, however this doesn't mean that if a person isn't taught right from wrong that they are a sinner automatically. A small child that is faced with a situation that he has never come across before might naturally choose to do the right thing over the wrong thing.

[Daystar] I think the lust of the eye, which leads to coveting, manifests itself early in life. Materialism has a strong attraction to human nature, opposed to God who is spiritual. Young tots are attracted to colorful things and want to possess them, and when they don't get them, they whine, cry, or try to take toys from the other tot. There are exceptions to the rule, but I think you would agree that most tots do not demsonstrate a selfless nature in the presence of attractive things. "Mine, mine," is our basic nature.

And in Islam we don't hold something against someone if they didn't know any better. The general belief is that a person isn't really accountable for their sins until they reach puberty or mental maturity. In fact it's not really right for us to be going around and judging peoples actions anyway.

[Daystar] You don't think wrong behavior should be judged? Is it wrong to to tell the thief that it's wrong to steal; the adulterer it's wrong to have another women; the alcoholic it's wrong to drink and drive; the perjurer that it's wrong to lie; the homosexual that it's wrong to have another man, etc.

If that person knows what they are doing is right or wrong then thats for God to judge, it's between them and God, not us.

[Daystar] Man has been given a righteous standard by which to live in the Ten Commandments. Would it be wrong to share with someone that obedience to them will result in a happy life?

[Pah]

Originally Posted by Daystar

Man has been given a righteous standard by which to live in the Ten Commandments. Would it be wrong to share with someone that obedience to them will result in a happy life?

It is ceratinly not wrong per se but not in this Forum

-pah-

[Daystar]

Originally Posted by pah

It is ceratinly not wrong per se but not in this Forum

-pah-

Why? Has the moderator set down standards against such communications? After all, the name of this website is "Religious Forums."