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  #41  
Old 04-29-2012, 09:04 AM
Rational_Mind Offline
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Originally Posted by LaaIlahaIllAllah View Post
Please, please. I do not want to read your garbage and satanic beliefs, Allah (Azza wa Jal) has already refuted that shaytan. Those were his own words that you saw in the article, go to the site as well for more info.

I do not want to continue this discussion with you, Islam is One, Muslims are united against all falsehood, Islam did not start in 1900s or whenever the heck this ahmadi man worshiping cult started. I might as well be arguing with a Christian. No, I was being deceived all along. You should identify yourself from now on you dajjal. I was trying to inform a "fellow Muslim" about Islamic beliefs not realizing that he is actually an undercover kaafir. Good job, just like the Mirza Ahmed shaytan, following the footsteps of your false prophet.

Why would I waste my time with someone who calls himself rational and then worships some fat no-good dajjal, shaytan, kaafir and believes that this fool is a prophet and messenger of Allah, this agent working for the British.

{And who is more unjust than one who invents a lie about Allah or says, "It has been inspired to me," while nothing has been inspired to him, and one who says, "I will reveal [something] like what Allah revealed." And if you could but see when the wrongdoers are in the overwhelming pangs of death while the angels extend their hands, [saying], "Discharge your souls! Today you will be awarded the punishment of [extreme] humiliation for what you used to say against Allah other than the truth and [that] you were, toward His verses, being arrogant."}
[ Surat Al-'An'am/6, v. 92 ]

You are a worthless dajjal kaafir and the Muslim Ummah has bigger problems then some small offshoots like your kind that are against saving the Muslims from oppression.
I was very undercover if I used alislam.org from the very beginning. You sound foolish and shows how much you actually bothered to read about what I wrote and what the OP wrote. You never even opened the links until the last moment. Did you even read the OP post on Jinn that he had a link to?

The Holy Quran does speak of your unity here:

[59:14] Of a truth, they have greater fear of you in their hearts than of Allah. That is because they are a people who are devoid of all reason.

[59:15] They will not fight you in a body except in fortified towns or from behind walls. Their fighting among themselves is severe. Thou thinkest them to be united, but their hearts are divided. That is because they are a people who have no sense.

[59:16] Their case is like the case of those who have, a short time before them, tasted the evil consequences of their doings. And for them is a painful punishment.

The ONLY time I see unity between the cowards has been on the issue of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat being questioned outside the pale of Islam. That has been the ONLY time. Your UNITY is only in enmity of the Real True Islam of 1400yrs back revived today. I know how many disputes there are over the smallest issues, like if ankles should be showing or whether a prophet is noor or bashr. Not even two people agree on the same thing. Everyone becomes a Kafir on the smallest issues. But everyone is UNITED ONLY AND ONLY when the issue of Ahmadiyya Jamat is raised. You don't feat Allah (swt) as much as you fear Ahmadiyya Islam, it is out of your control as Allah (swt) has set forth Angels to spread Islam to the corners of the earth.
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  #42  
Old 04-29-2012, 09:14 AM
Rational_Mind Offline
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Originally Posted by trruth View Post
No,it is not of course physical,i did not say dust,but out of dust or from dust.
i may explain it comparing what we get out from the x-ray tube,the tube which
is physical with a cathod and anode will generate an unseen ray which we call x-ray,
of course that ray is detectable,but we cant detect the soul,because it is the science
of the creator and different than the rays which we know or can detect.

We know that each one of us have 2 angels,one to record his bad deeds and
the other one for recording his good deeds,we can detect the light,but the
angels are made out of light,but not the light which we know and can detect.

Jinn got more power than us,the free soul of the dead jinn can enter one body
in some cases,which can cause him to make strange acts like his hands moved eventhough
that he know that he didnt move his hand,the body will be controlled by 2 souls,
the jinn and the person own soul,sometimes the jinn will be inside the body not discovered
and the most effect he can do is controlling the person thoughts.

let me explain according to my understanding what is the soul.

The soul simply in brief words is the driver of our body and decision maker,let me explain it in more details and how can we discover our own soul.

We know that each one of us have his own senses,let us see how the sense of taste work,the receptor cell send message to brain through the sensory
nerve and the brain will show your(soul),how it taste,then your(soul)will decide whether to eat or stop.

if you have a cup of tea with one spoon sugar,then your brain will translate it to you
as an illusion of sweetness according to the message sent to the brain,if we add 10 more spoon
of sugar to the cup,then the brain will receive a message which will translated to you as an intensive sweetness,
now your soul will decide (as decision maker) whether to stop drinking or not.

Another example,moving your hand cant be done,except by your soul,try to move
your hand and to stop moving it,you will realize that your soul is driving your hand
as well as driving your body,that is the reason that the person who is (let us say) infected
with jinn,2 souls will try to take over his body,his own soul and the jinn one,so he may make a movement
which he know that he didnt do it or similar things or even different thoughts...etc.

Our body is a well programmed creation with the soul as the driver and decision maker.

let us see how programming is working in our vision senses,for most normal males,
the scene of a female with attractive body will be translatedt to sexual attraction,
that feeling is already programmed in our minds just for the purpose of reproduction,
which means if a male will look to a fake attractive woman (doll) from a distance, then
he will be attracted to the scene and that feeling will disappear once he discovered that
it was jus a doll,so attraction between male and female is programmed for the purpose of reproduction.

Now why the soul will be asked,because our souls are the decision makers,if you
have a glass of wine,then your soul may drive you to the glass and your soul will
move your hands to drink the wine and your soul will be asked for such decision
on the judgement day.

the soul own the body including the brain,the brain is just the central processor and
our soul is the instructor,driver and decision maker of our own body.
Can it be said on the day of judgement that the bad deeds being done was because I thought maybe there was a Jinn in me but I couldn't tell. Does one soul turn off when another enters? Can a Jinn enter the body of a fetus and then a Jinn child is born. How come the Jinn soul cannot use the powers to make the Human body disappear. What happens if a Jinn mates with a Human, is there a mixed soul born? Which body will it have?

Allah (swt) says that he does not burden a soul beyond its capacity. I am overwhelmed by trying to understand how we can earn our rewards if we aren't even sure if a Jinn is possessing me. Does the Quran or Hadith mention anything about two souls inside a single body? I know the verse you posted but this doesn't seem the same.

This is really hard to understand why possibly Jinn possess others. It feels very very unfair. I feel if Allah (swt) is most just then he would have explained why Jinn posses people.
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  #43  
Old 04-29-2012, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by F0uad View Post
Come on get along, i personally belief there is something called ''Jin-Possession''
agreed!
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  #44  
Old 04-29-2012, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by lisabel View Post
agreed!
I have no problem with what anyone believes. Everyone has the right to disagree. My only issue here is that it would be completely false to assert that the Quran has mentioned Jinn possession. I have always asked people to show me. In the end nobody gives up this belief and keeps saying it has a basis in the Quran. Seems like a money making scheme for appearing to treat psychological disorders.

In general it is not my responsibility to show you it is false. Someone who believes something that is outside of common logic holds the responsibility of showing it. Although I feel responsible to help guide some people.
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  #45  
Old 04-29-2012, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Rational_Mind View Post
Can it be said on the day of judgement that the bad deeds being done was because I thought maybe there was a Jinn in me but I couldn't tell. Does one soul turn off when another enters? Can a Jinn enter the body of a fetus and then a Jinn child is born. How come the Jinn soul cannot use the powers to make the Human body disappear. What happens if a Jinn mates with a Human, is there a mixed soul born? Which body will it have?

Allah (swt) says that he does not burden a soul beyond its capacity. I am overwhelmed by trying to understand how we can earn our rewards if we aren't even sure if a Jinn is possessing me. Does the Quran or Hadith mention anything about two souls inside a single body? I know the verse you posted but this doesn't seem the same.

This is really hard to understand why possibly Jinn possess others. It feels very very unfair. I feel if Allah (swt) is most just then he would have explained why Jinn posses people.
good questions.

The jinn will not control the mind of a man with strong faith,only the person with a weak faith will be a good environment for the jinn to live in his thoughts.

if the jinn entered the body,then there are 2 prospects
He may just direct the person for the bad deeds and in the other case he may
try to control the body which will cause the person to act like crazy.

When the fetus grow in specific stage,then god will send his soul,whether of jinn
or adam's type soul,we only pass genetic inheritance,but not soul,everyone has
his different own soul,you can see one brother extremely good and the other
one may be a criminal eventhough they nurtured together.

Jinn is not bad,he can be a believer or he maybe a disbeliever,but they got
extraordinary power

Jinn cant creat their own body and dissappeared,to me that is nonsense, but only the free jinn souls after body death can control other bodies,such as cats,snakes...etc.

We cant say god is unfair,god warned us from the satan and to be aware of him.

That is done by the strong faith.
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  #46  
Old 04-29-2012, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Rational_Mind View Post
I have no problem with what anyone believes. Everyone has the right to disagree. My only issue here is that it would be completely false to assert that the Quran has mentioned Jinn possession. I have always asked people to show me. In the end nobody gives up this belief and keeps saying it has a basis in the Quran. Seems like a money making scheme for appearing to treat psychological disorders.

In general it is not my responsibility to show you it is false. Someone who believes something that is outside of common logic holds the responsibility of showing it. Although I feel responsible to help guide some people.
Hello Rational Mind, it is not mentioned as demonic/Jinn possession, however a verse states that Jinns did a lot of harm to the humans. Being rather spiritual, I had some negative personal experiences. You are right though, it is a business.
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  #47  
Old 04-29-2012, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by trruth View Post
good questions.

The jinn will not control the mind of a man with strong faith,only the person with a weak faith will be a good environment for the jinn to live in his thoughts.

if the jinn entered the body,then there are 2 prospects
He may just direct the person for the bad deeds and in the other case he may
try to control the body which will cause the person to act like crazy.

When the fetus grow in specific stage,then god will send his soul,whether of jinn
or adam's type soul,we only pass genetic inheritance,but not soul,everyone has
his different own soul,you can see one brother extremely good and the other
one may be a criminal eventhough they nurtured together.

Jinn is not bad,he can be a believer or he maybe a disbeliever,but they got
extraordinary power

Jinn cant creat their own body and dissappeared,to me that is nonsense, but only the free jinn souls after body death can control other bodies,such as cats,snakes...etc.

We cant say god is unfair,god warned us from the satan and to be aware of him.

That is done by the strong faith.
Is not life after death of Jinn the same Humans, because Quran did not make a distinction, unless I missed it. Also won't their bodies be the same as Allah (swt) says he can assemble its bones etc... If Jinn can possess Humans why can't Humans who pass away possess other Humans or Jinn. Also, what are some of the special powers of the Jinn mentioned in the Quran. If they are simply something we cannot see it is not necessary they have special powers. What if they are simply invisible humans. Has the word "possession" or something like "transform" been used about the Jinn in Hadith or the Quran.
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  #48  
Old 04-29-2012, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by lisabel View Post
Hello Rational Mind, it is not mentioned as demonic/Jinn possession, however a verse states that Jinns did a lot of harm to the humans. Being rather spiritual, I had some negative personal experiences. You are right though, it is a business.
Why aren't there any Muslim Jinn's helping us today. Quran says to join each other in good works. I mean if there was Jinn then there must be atleast one Muslim Jinn. And having just one Muslim Jinn could help spread Islam all over the world. They possess bad people and make them stop doing bad things. I feel that as human beings we are not all-knowing. So whenever we don't understand something we like to attribute it to Jinn. If someone tried to show some common psychological diseases or magnetism like back when they did not know they would say it is Jinn. But truly it is only something we don't understand and only Allah (swt) is all knowing. In the Quran Jinn is exactly as definition. Something concealed. Similarly hadith mention jinn as bacteria that eat on dung and bones that we only found out about today. They also mention snakes which we know like to hide in the smallest crevices. I think even thieves are Jinn. They come hidden and steal stuff without you seeing them. Similarly we say Shaytan is something that is bad for you. In hadith we are told to cover our food so Shaytan don't enter. Now we all know why we cover our food today so bacteria or germs don't get in. Also we call someone who will do bad things and led us astray as Shaytan because the person is Human but does a lot of bad things. Evil thoughts placed in minds would also be called whispers of Shaytan.
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  #49  
Old 04-29-2012, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Rational_Mind View Post
Why aren't there any Muslim Jinn's helping us today. Quran says to join each other in good works. I mean if there was Jinn then there must be atleast one Muslim Jinn. And having just one Muslim Jinn could help spread Islam all over the world. They possess bad people and make them stop doing bad things. I feel that as human beings we are not all-knowing. So whenever we don't understand something we like to attribute it to Jinn. If someone tried to show some common psychological diseases or magnetism like back when they did not know they would say it is Jinn. But truly it is only something we don't understand and only Allah (swt) is all knowing. In the Quran Jinn is exactly as definition. Something concealed. Similarly hadith mention jinn as bacteria that eat on dung and bones that we only found out about today. They also mention snakes which we know like to hide in the smallest crevices. I think even thieves are Jinn. They come hidden and steal stuff without you seeing them. Similarly we say Shaytan is something that is bad for you. In hadith we are told to cover our food so Shaytan don't enter. Now we all know why we cover our food today so bacteria or germs don't get in. Also we call someone who will do bad things and led us astray as Shaytan because the person is Human but does a lot of bad things. Evil thoughts placed in minds would also be called whispers of Shaytan.
Hi again, I doubt Jinns have more intelligence than humans, they are just beings of different material ie energy and supposed to respect us. So I wouldn't rely on them. As you know we must only rely on God.
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  #50  
Old 04-29-2012, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Rational_Mind View Post
Why aren't there any Muslim Jinn's helping us today. Quran says to join each other in good works. I mean if there was Jinn then there must be atleast one Muslim Jinn. And having just one Muslim Jinn could help spread Islam all over the world. They possess bad people and make them stop doing bad things. I feel that as human beings we are not all-knowing. So whenever we don't understand something we like to attribute it to Jinn. If someone tried to show some common psychological diseases or magnetism like back when they did not know they would say it is Jinn. But truly it is only something we don't understand and only Allah (swt) is all knowing. In the Quran Jinn is exactly as definition. Something concealed. Similarly hadith mention jinn as bacteria that eat on dung and bones that we only found out about today. They also mention snakes which we know like to hide in the smallest crevices. I think even thieves are Jinn. They come hidden and steal stuff without you seeing them. Similarly we say Shaytan is something that is bad for you. In hadith we are told to cover our food so Shaytan don't enter. Now we all know why we cover our food today so bacteria or germs don't get in. Also we call someone who will do bad things and led us astray as Shaytan because the person is Human but does a lot of bad things. Evil thoughts placed in minds would also be called whispers of Shaytan.
i am surprised that you are talking this way as if god can not beat disbelievers or he
need jinn to help muslims to do so.

God if he wanted can end it all in one day,but he is giving everyone chance to repent,
even what you called the enemies of muslims,what you called enemies can be one
day the best friends,just saying simply the jinns help us and of course help god in return
to kill the enemies,thats amazing,i dont know what to say.

Khalid bin Walid was one of the greatest enemy against Mohamed pbuh,is it hard for god to
kill him,What do you think? i leave the reply for yourself to get what i meant.
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