Study: Iraq Death Toll May Exceed 600,000 (moral, suicide)

[doppelgänger]

Epidemiologists using historical mortality data have estimated that the number of Iraqi deaths since the invasion is around 600,000 more than should be expected.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/wo...nt&oref=slogin

[robtex]

thread tagging:
civilian death toll in Iraq

[robtex]

youtube clip on it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYyp4j5G0D8

[greatcalgarian]

BBC has a detail story:

An estimated 655,000 Iraqis have died since 2003 who might still be alive but for the US-led invasion, according to a survey by a US university.

The research compares mortality rates before and after the invasion from 47 randomly chosen areas in Iraq.
The figure is considerably higher than estimates by official sources or the number of deaths reported in the media.
It is vigorously disputed by supporters of the war in Iraq, including US President George W Bush.
John Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health (JHBSPH) estimate that the mortality rates have more than doubled since the invasion to overthrow Saddam Hussein, causing an average of 500 deaths a day.
I stand by the figure that a lot of innocent people have lost their life... and that troubles me, and it grieves me


President George W Bush

In the past, Mr Bush has put the civilian death toll in Iraq at 30,000, and hours after details of the latest research were published he dismissed JHBSPH's methodology as "pretty well discredited".
The John Hopkins researchers argue their statistical approach is more reliable than counting dead bodies, given the obstacles preventing more comprehensive fieldwork in the violent and insecure conditions of Iraq.
"I stand by the figure that a lot of innocent people have lost their life... and that troubles me, and it grieves me," Mr Bush told reporters at the White House. "Six-hundred thousand or whatever they guessed at is just... it's not credible," Mr Bush said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6040054.stm

[Sunstone]

What are the causes of these deaths?

[kai]

Originally Posted by greatcalgarian

BBC has a detail story:

The research compares mortality rates before and after the invasion from 47 randomly chosen areas in Iraq.
The figure is considerably higher than estimates by official sources or the number of deaths reported in the media.
It is vigorously disputed by supporters of the war in Iraq, including US President George W Bush.
John Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health (JHBSPH) estimate that the mortality rates have more than doubled since the invasion to overthrow Saddam Hussein, causing an average of 500 deaths a day.
I stand by the figure that a lot of innocent people have lost their life... and that troubles me, and it grieves me


President George W Bush

In the past, Mr Bush has put the civilian death toll in Iraq at 30,000, and hours after details of the latest research were published he dismissed JHBSPH's methodology as "pretty well discredited".
The John Hopkins researchers argue their statistical approach is more reliable than counting dead bodies, given the obstacles preventing more comprehensive fieldwork in the violent and insecure conditions of Iraq.
"I stand by the figure that a lot of innocent people have lost their life... and that troubles me, and it grieves me," Mr Bush told reporters at the White House. "Six-hundred thousand or whatever they guessed at is just... it's not credible," Mr Bush said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6040054.stm

the old rhyme about "if ifs were buts "springs to mind how far do we go with this would they still be alive if say no one murdered them ! how many are from suicide bombs how many are murdered how can the coalition leave these people when deposits of human heads are found in Baghdad on a weekly basis. do we leave and let the headhunters form a government ?

[greatcalgarian]

Read the complete paper:

http://www.thelancet.com/webfiles/im...3606694919.pdf

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by kai

the old rhyme about "if ifs were buts "springs to mind how far do we go with this would they still be alive if say no one murdered them ! how many are from suicide bombs how many are murdered how can the coalition leave these people when deposits of human heads are found in Baghdad on a weekly basis. do we leave and let the headhunters form a government ?

• The study estimates that 601,027 people have died violent deaths since the invasion.
• The total number of excess deaths is estimated to be 654,965.
• Violent deaths attributed to coalition forces are estimated at 31%.

In other words, the U.S. and the U.K. have perpetrated a terrible slaughter in Iraq, but -- horrific as that slaughter is -- it likely accounts for around a third of the slaughter going on. Sectarian violence accounts for around two-thirds.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by MidnightBlue

In other words, the U.S. and the U.K. have perpetrated a terrible slaughter in Iraq, but -- horrific as that slaughter is -- it likely accounts for around a third of the slaughter going on. Sectarian violence accounts for around two-thirds.

But would that sectarian slaughter be happening if we hadn't stepped in? And morally speaking, are we only responsible for the people we actively kill or are we also partly responsible for people killed by others as a result of our actions? Does it make a difference if we had reason to believe that our actions would cause it would happen?


Bad bad karma... digging the hole deeper.

[robtex]

Here is a newer report released on this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061110/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq