What Destroyed Traditional Marriage? (evolution, America, pagans, divorce, sexuality)

[Sunstone]

For the most part, I mean the old, old traditional marriage. The sort of marriages that were common through most of European, and indeed, most of world, history. That is, marriages that were arranged to secure property, heirs, and political or social alliances, and that were usually loveless. What destroyed those? Why aren't those kinds of marriages still the norm in the West?

Was it the rise of prosperity brought about by the industrial revolution and capitalism that began in Britain around 1725? Was it the notion of romantic love invented by the Arabs and then brought to Europe through Spain beginning around 1200? Was it the rank individualism of American pioneers as they moved West, which was then exported back to Europe? Or, was it something else?

[angellous_evangellous]

Capitalism and civil rights.

There's no way to argue against that simple argument. People are able to divorce/ create any complicated living situation that they like and are able to, at least in theory, make a good living no matter what their familiy situation is.

[evearael]

That is, marriages that were arranged to secure property, heirs, and political or social alliances, and that were usually loveless. What destroyed those? Why aren't those kinds of marriages still the norm in the West?

Well if you take out the arranged part, there are still plenty of marriages that could be described that way... "the notion of romantic love" hasn't been completely victorious yet.

[Engyo]

My question is, did Adam and Eve ever actually get married, or were their children born out of wedlock?

[Circle_One]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

For the most part, I mean the old, old traditional marriage. The sort of marriages that were common through most of European, and indeed, most of world, history. That is, marriages that were arranged to secure property, heirs, and political or social alliances, and that were usually loveless. What destroyed those? Why aren't those kinds of marriages still the norm in the West?

Was it the rise of prosperity brought about by the industrial revolution and capitalism that began in Britain around 1725? Was it the notion of romantic love invented by the Arabs and then brought to Europe through Spain beginning around 1200? Was it the rank individualism of American pioneers as they moved West, which was then exported back to Europe? Or, was it something else?

I heard it was the Pagans' open sexuality, mixed in with Furries that was bringer downer of those sorts of marriages

(sorry, I'm in a goofy mood this morning..afternoon..).

[Engyo]

Originally Posted by Engyo

My question is, did Adam and Eve ever actually get married, or were their children born out of wedlock?

Wow! Sorry, folks....it seemed like every time I hit the space bar, the system posted the message! I've never seen that one before!

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

For the most part, I mean the old, old traditional marriage. The sort of marriages that were common through most of European, and indeed, most of world, history. That is, marriages that were arranged to secure property, heirs, and political or social alliances, and that were usually loveless. What destroyed those? Why aren't those kinds of marriages still the norm in the West?

Was it the rise of prosperity brought about by the industrial revolution and capitalism that began in Britain around 1725? Was it the notion of romantic love invented by the Arabs and then brought to Europe through Spain beginning around 1200? Was it the rank individualism of American pioneers as they moved West, which was then exported back to Europe? Or, was it something else?

The re-definition of Love did it. We have all seen and talk to older folks who's idea of a marriage/relationship/sex talks are as odd to us as it is to them looking at a tribal marriage that consist of trading of 5 pigs, a net, and somekind of ornament.

I personally don't like the definition that is lurking it's way to the surface now and didn't like the view I had of the old either. To me, both are extremes on the spectrum of peoples perception of Love.

But then again, I've only been married for 4 years .

[!Fluffy!]

Originally Posted by Engyo

Wow! Sorry, folks....it seemed like every time I hit the space bar, the system posted the message! I've never seen that one before!

That happened to me once, I finally realized I had several Reply to Thread windows open...

[Ormiston]

I wonder if "Traditional Marriages", as we read about in stories, were not simply traditional among royalty or the rich. I have a feeling that the common folk from every era had common weddings just like today. I mean, the rich have always had the goods. What property or alliances would the majority of people on this planet have to offer?

[Engyo]

Originally Posted by Ormiston

I wonder if "Traditional Marriages", as we read about in stories, were not simply traditional among royalty or the rich. I have a feeling that the common folk from every era had common weddings just like today. I mean, the rich have always had the goods. What property or alliances would the majority of people on this planet have to offer?

If I am a small farmer, and my son marries the farmer next door's daughter, all of a sudden they own twice as much land as I do by myself, don't they? If I am a winemaker, and my daughter is married to the cooper's son, I can get a price break on the barrels I need. Etc., etc., etc.