BAPS and Sri Swaminarayan Sampraday (ritual, rejecting, Earth, incarnation)

[harikrishna]

Vachanamrit : 64

What is the body of God and why ?

Soul and Akshar -

Result of meditating upon the formless

– God as inner regulator

On the ninth day of the second fortnight of the month of Falgun of Samvat 1876, Swami Shri Sahajanandji Maharaj was seated on a cot on the verandah facing east of the room in the Durbar of Shri Dada Khachar at Gadhada. He had about his shoulders a white and folded side cloth and had covered his body with a white cotton shawl which had a black border. On his head was tied a cloth with a rich fabric border in the shape of a turban. He had put on a new Tulsi rosery in his neck. Munis and the devotees from the various places were assembled before him.
Then Shriji Maharaj asked to Munis, “The Shruti4 describes Atma2 and Akshar3 as the body of Lord Purushottam5. However, Atma2 and Akshar3 being eternal and changeless are devoid of any Upadhi6. And as God transcends Maya7, so Atma2 and Akshar3 are also beyond Maya7. How, therefore, can Atma2 and Akshar3 be described as the body of Parmatma8 ? And since the Jiva’s body is different from the Jiva2, because it is susceptible to graded determination, where as the Jiva2 is static in condition, it is infered that the body and the dweller of the body the Jiva- have different characteristics and that Atma2 and Akshar3 who are described as the body of Parmatma8- the dweller of the body and Atma2 and Akshar3-the body bear the same characteristics. How, therefore, can their relation as the body and the in dweller of the body be reconciled ?’
The Muni’s tried to reply, but they could not satisfy. Then Shriji Maharaj said, “Let me reply this question. Atma2 and Akshar3 as the body of Shri Purushottam5 have characteristics different from Paramatma8 in as much as Atma2 and Akshar3 are permeable, dependent and powerless and Paramatma8 is pervasive by reason of his Antaryami Shakti9, independent and absolutly powerful. This is how the characteristic of Atma2 and Akshar3 and of Parmatma8 are different, which complies with the rule that body and the dweller of the body bear different characteristics. The dweller of the body of Atma2 and Akshar3, who is Parmatama8, possesses always a divine form.This Parmatama8 resides by his Antaryami Shakti9 in all. Paramatama8 is the Atma of all the Atma, who pervade by their pervasive power, the different bodies but are being pervaded by this Parmatma8 by his Antaryami Shakti9. This Parmatma8 the atma2 of all Atmas10 when described by the scriptures as the Atma2 of all visible figures, i. e. Drusya he is described as visible and approachable. By the Indriyas and Antahkarans11. Parmatma8, described by the scriptures as the Atma of Atmans i. e. Drusta, then he is formless. In fact Parmatma is different both from Drushya12 and Drusta13, and has always a divine form, devoid of any worldly attributes. Again Parmatma8, even though having a divine form, is still the dweller of both the visible and invisible forms. He is also the inspirer of both Atma2 and Akshar.3 He is the controller and is resplendent with all Lordship. He transcends Akshar3 who Again is beyond Prakriti14 and Purush15. This Purushottam5 has with great commiseration assumed human form for the redemption of many Jivas2. One who knows him as such, wedded to all divinity and infinite powers, and offers absolute devotion to him is sure to attain him and will be endowed with all divine powers. Such a devotee who has has been so Brahmanised always serves God with profound devotion . One, who does not so know God and knows him as formless is consigned to Brahm Sushupti16. He would never come out of it and would never receive any divine powers of God. I have narrated this esoteric spiritual truth as seen by Me, and such divine experiences can be had only through a saint who has so known God and so realised him but not through others. Therefore, it is my desire that you all should imbible this knowledge of the divine form of God thoroughly.

Thus Ends Vachanamrit : Gadhada - 64

2. Soul. 3. Divine abode of Lord. 4. Scriptures. 5. Supreme Lord, Ultimate reality. 6. Circumstancial changes. 7. One of the five eternal entities. 8. God. 9. Divine power of God. 10. One who has Atma. One who holds Soul. 11. When mother Earth or God of fire or God of rain is described as Parmatma by the scriptures, the word Parmatma refers to the ultimate God who is their indweller. Body connotes the Jiva and not the flesh ¿F‚ °# He is the universe wherein the universe is not God but the dweller. “He’ is God. 12. Visible figure 13. Visionary. 14. Real source of creation of the universe when it is associated to Purush. 15. A real source of creation. Inactive and non creative in the absence of Prakriti. 16. Light of Brahm.

[michaelm]

Originally Posted by harikrishna

Show me a scripture where it states that God is formless. Give me the Shloka number and all. God is unlimited. He is anant.

By the way there is nothing wrong in knowing that those who will committ sin yet state
that God is formless will also go hell. God is not formless. He has a divine form.

Yoga Vasistha or the writings of Adi Shankara. Whilst they both state that God can be worshipped with form, they conclude that actually there is only Brahman - the formless.

He/She has form because we need to worship, but God with form is only for our benefit. To say that God is ONLY with form and is not formless is not correct...form is limited. Are you saying God is limited?

[harikrishna]

Schools in religious thoughts.
Spiritual practice and Shri Hari.
Devotion that Shri Hari likes.
On the eleventh day of the second fortnight of the month of Margshirsh of Samvat 1877, Shriji Maharaj was seated on a cot in the Durbar of Shri Sura Khachar at Loya. He had put on a white turban. He was dressed in all white clothes. He had covered his body with a white cotton shawl. The saints and the devotees from the different places were assembled before him.
Then Shriji Maharaj said to the Paramhamsas,2 "The Acharyas3 of the past have preached different schools of thought according to the difference in their understanding. Shankar Swami4 preached the Advait5 school of thought with prominance of the knowledge of ultimate reality and Shri Ramanujacharya the Vishishtadvaita school of thought. Shri Ramanujacharya has explained that Jiva, Maya and Purushottam are the three eternal entities. Purushottam8 is the supreme cause of all, the all controller. He is seated in his divine abode Akshardham9 with a divine form. All the incarnations emanate from him. Therefore, Purushottam Narayan8 is the only form which should be worshipped by all. Shri Vallabhacharya10 is full of exuberant devotion and has preached the Bhakti." These Acharyas3 have, their own interpretations of the scriptures and have established their own schools of thought indepedent of others. Their books – containing their philosophy – indictate the trend of their thoughts.
In the like manner, what is the underlying thought that I propound in my talks ? Just as a thread runs smoothly through the hole of needle, which kind of trend runs esoterically and lucidly through my spiritual talks like a thread holding smoothly all the beads of a rosary ?"
All the elder Paramhamsas2 tried to reply according to their understanding. Then Shriji Maharaj said, "Now let me tell you. Rishabhdev Bhagwan12 had close association with Vasudev Bhagwan12 but in order that his disciples might gain in spiritual wisdom, he discarded the Siddhis14 which an Yogi15 earns after attaining the proficiency in Yoga. The Shrimad Bhagwat says, "An Yogi15 who has attained proficiency in yoga and has established control over his mind, should even then meticulously avoid the tempting calls of the mind.(Bhagwat : 5 . 6. 3 & 4)
I like those who have accepted renunciation with a perfect control over their mind. Again, compared to other abodes of God, I have a great liking for divine abode of Badrikashram16 and Shweldweep. I feel greatly exhilarated within myself when I think of performing Tapas in these divine abodes, with a full withdrawal of Indriyas. The other Lokas which offer sumptuous enjoyment are always repulsive to my mind. Again, out of the various incarnations from Narayan,8 I like Rishabhadev,12 next to him Kapilji12 and Dattatraya.12 Krishna,13 however, is dearest to me of all the tree. And I feel that this incarnation is the greatest of all the incavnnations and the most powerful. It is distinguished only as Avatari18 out of whom the other Avatars emerge. Incarnations of Matsya,19 Kurma19 etc. have no attraction for me.
And this is my concept of Upasana.

[harikrishna]

Within the divine light which transcends every thing, which is fathomless in all directions, even above and beneath, there is enthroned on a divine pedestal Narayan – Purushottam Bhagwan.8 Around this divine pedestal are seated the released souls, infinite in number, and enjoying the divine Darshan20 of Narayan.8 I always have the vision of this Narayan8 surrounded by the released souls. Light emanated from the person of Narayan8 is great. At times it – appears that this divine light is superimposed upon the divine form of Narayan8 and his released souls, and obstructs the Divine Darshan20 of Narayan8 and the released souls. Such an obstruction in the Darshan20 of Narayan8 along with his divine assembly greatly pains me. Only when I see the divine form of Narayan8 do I rejoice. This is my concept of Upasana. And Bhakti offered to this God, I like to offer in such exuberance as was offered by the Gopis. I have been looking around at people, and when I find the women covetously drawn towards her man, I feel that it would be good if we have such intense love for God. Similarly, when I find people strongly attached either to their sons or to wealth, I feel that, it would be good if we have such strong attachment to God. And when I hear some body singing, I would like to go to him or send somebody to him and feel pleased listening to him.
And I love only those who are devoid of the evil instincts of passion, anger, covetousness, taste, attachment, ego, envy, hypocrisy, falsehood etc. and who with such and elevated state, offer devotion to God and observe the religious obligations laid down in our scriptures. One who does not possess such is not at all close to us. We do not like his company. We avoid such person. Formerly I have greatly detested people who committed adultery, but now I feel resentment for such people who possess vicious instincts like anger, ego and envy, since people committing adultery realize their weakness and even if rebuked, do not go out of this holy Satsang.21 But the people with the instinct of ego, envy and anger would definitely leave this Satsang,21 if only slightly rebuked. They are, therefore, an anathema and should be discarded harshly.
What is that ego ? One, possessed by ego, remains always petulant, even before the people greater in age and dignity than himself. He would never humble himself before such devotees and try to serve them.
I will now tell you precisely the fundamental principles which I have been enunciating in my talks. I absolutely do not concur with the philosoply of Advait Vedanta22 as preached by Shri Shankar Swami. I have accepted the view of Shri Ramanujacharya who holds Purushottam8 as transcending both Kshar–Jivas and Akshar.24 Lord Purushottam8 is, therefore, the form of Upasana.25 He is to be offered dedicated devotion, as was offered by the Gopis to Shri Krishna. The absolute detachment that Shukadevji24 and Jad Bharat25 showed towards the world should be our craving. These fundamental tenets run lucidly in my preachings and are ably expounded in the scriptures which are accepted as authority by this Satsang.21 One who is so learned would definitely realize the significance of this talk when he goes through these scriptures."
Even though, he was the Purushottam,8 Shriji Maharaj thus addressed his disciples so that they might learn and imbibe his choicest aptitudes.

Thus Ends Vachanamrit : Loya - 14

2. Saints. 3. Religious prophets. 4. Shankaracharya – one of the founders of Advait school of philosophy. 5. Monism. 6. Founding preacher of Vishishtadvaita sschool of religious philosophy. 7. Monism establishing Jiva, Maya and God as three eternal entities. 8. Supreme Lord. 9. Abode of Lord Purushottam. 10. Supporting Acharya in Vishishtadvait school. 11. Devotion. 12. A great devotee (deity). 13. Supreme Lord incarnated. 14. Medititional acheivements. 15. An ascetic. 16. A holy place. 17. The mind is frickle, hence should not be trusted. Severe penance of the sages for a long time has come to naught because they trusted their mind. Just as an adultress having taken her husband into confidance gives an easy access to her lovers and gets him killed, similarly the mind of a Yogi causes him to fall if he trusts it, by giving an easy access to passion followed by other internal enimies. 18. Incarnated. 19. Two incarnations of supreme Lord in the form of fish & turtle. 20. To see with utmost devotion. 21. Company of saintly people, Inception in Swaminarayan Sect. 22. Monism. 23. Founder preacher of Monism. 24. Ever existant. 25. Meditational worship. 26. A saint and preacher of Bhagwat

[harikrishna]

It is most charmful.
Is God multi-armed ?
On the first day of the first fortnight of the month of Paush of Samvat 1877, Shriji Maharaj was seated on a cot in the Durbar of Shri Sura Khachar at Loya. He had put on a white turban-shaped cloth on his head and another folded white cloth was wrapped tightly about his side face and chin. A red coloured woolen jecket was worn by him. He had covered his body with a cotton rag covered over by a white cotton shawl. A neatly folded side cloth was placed about his shoulder and back-neck. Paramhamsas and the devotees from the different places were assembled before him. At that time the Paramhamsas had finished the ceremony of adoration with Aarati in the evening and the chanting of the hymns. Then Shriji Maharaj said, "May you all sing devotional songs."
Then Muktanand Swami and others, playing with the musical instruments sang devotional songs."
Then Shriji Maharaj said, "Now, you may rest from singing devotional songs. I shall commence a discourse, and if you have any doubt may ask for clerification." Saying this, Shriji Maharaj added further, "The most difficult thing is to have Nishchaya1 in God. The topic of Nishcaya1 is very complex, as such, I hasitate to discuss it. I am afraid that if I say something, which someone may misinterpret and, just because of this discourse, his firmness to mode of his spiritual practice may be lost and thus he would be totally uprooted from the Satsang.2
On other hand, I cannot do without presenting that topic. If that topic is not properly grasped, it may result in evils. As long as the topic is not properly understood, the Nishchaya1 would remain immature. This is why I Present this topic."
"God assumed the body of a boar in Varah Avatar.3 The figure of a boar is said to be ugliest. He assumed the body of fish in Matsyavatar.4 He had the form of fish and when he assumed Katchhavatar5 he had the form just like tortoise. When in Nrisimhaavatar,6 he appeared as ferocious as a lion. In Vaman Avatar,7 he assumed the body of the form of Vamana7 and had short arms, short legs, fat and strong hip and robust waist. He was become a small dwarf. And when he assumed the incarnation as Vyas,8 he became dark-skinned, hairy and foul body-smell.
Thus God had assumed many forms and the people of respective times of incarnations had – meditated upon the form as appeared before them. And to such meditation they had realized similar divine form. But does this mean that those who met the Varah3 Avatar see God in abode merely as Varah3 ? Does those who met the Matsya-Avatar4 see God in abode merely as Matsya ? Do those who met Katchhavatar5 see God in abode merely as the Katchhap. And do those who met Nrisimha-Avatar1 see him in abode as a Leo-man ? And do those who met Hayagreeva9 see him in abode as Haya10 ?
And have those women who worshipped Varah3 – God as a husband become female - pigs ? And did those men who worshipped him as a friend became pigs ? Had the women who worshipped God as the Matsya4 become female-fish ? And had the men who worshipped him as a friend become male-fish ? Had the woman who worshipped God as a Katchha5 become female-tortoise ? Had the men who worshipped him as a friend have become male-tortoise ? And the women who had worshipped Nrisimha6 as a husband become Leo-woman ? And the men who worshipped him as Nrisimha6 become Leo-man ? And has the women who worshipped Hayagreeva9 as a husband become a mare and worshipper man the horse ? So, if the original form of God is like that of boar, fish, turtle, leo-man, horse-necked etc. the devotees who meditated upon him must have become boar etc. But in reality it was not so.
Then you may ask, "What is the form of God ?" I propound that God is in the form of Satchidanand11 – with ultimate bliss and divine light. Each pore on his divine body emits the light of billions of suns. He is so beautiful that he would put to shame even cupid. He is the supreme Lord of infinite number of universes. He is the Lord of all the lords, the controller of all, the internal regulator of all and he is immense bliss incarnate. The happiness derived by looking at infinite number of beautiful women would become trifling before the beauty of the form of God. The happiness offered by Panchvishayas12 of this world and the world beyond becomes insignificant before him. Such is the form of God in essence. That form. always, has two arms, but out of his own will, he appears some times having four arms, eight arms and also having a thousand arms. And same God assumes the form of fish, tortoise, boar, Lord Rama,13 Lord Krishna14 etc. to carry out a certain mission. But he does not assume an incarnation by giving up his original form. The same God assumes incarnations such as that of the fish, the tortoise etc. having immeasurable power and energy. He gives up a particular body he might have assumed for a particular mission, on the complection of the mission. Shrimad Bhagwat says Bhagwat 1- 15- 34)

[harikrishna]

Like removing a thorn, with a thorn, he gave up that body with which he removed the burden of the earth. Both his forms were equelly powerful. God in his human form removed the burden of the earth. The thorn may be in the form of body-consciousness of the people. God removed the thorn and gave up his body which served as a thorn to remove a thorn to kill the demon (Hiranya –Kashipu). God asumed the body of Nrishimha.6 After carrying out his mission, he thought of giving up the body but who would kill that lion ? So, as Lord Vishnu15 desired Lord Shiva assumed the form of Sharabha.16 Then there was a duel between the two and both of them gave up their bodies. So Lord Shiva 17 became Sharabheshwar18 Mahadeva,19 and the body which God Nrisimha6 gave up became the holy rock called Narsimhi6 – Shila.20 So, wherever the incarnations of God as the fish, the tortoise etc are painted or the sculptured, the figures of the fish or the tortorise are depicted partly, and then, the signs of God such as the conch, the disc, the mace, the lotus, Vaijayanti21 garland, the yellow silken lower garment, the crown and the sign of Shri Vatsa are shown.22 The eternal form of God is in such a human form.
At first, after the birth Shri Krishna23 appeared before Vasudeva24 and Devki,24 with his four arms. He appeared before Akrura25 in the form with four arms. When Rukmini26 became unconscious, he appeared before her with four arms. And Arjuna also said Geeta : 11 . 46)
So Arjuna27 also used to see him as four armed. After the war of the Yadavas when Shri Krishna Bhagwan26 was sitting under a Peepal-tree, Uddhvaji28 and sage Maitrya29 saw his four armed form with the conch, the disc, the mace and the lotus and wearing the yellow silkan Pitambar.30 Shri Krishna Bhagwan26 was dark but he was also so beautiful that he put cupid (Kamdeva) to shame. So he appears like a human being. In him there is divine light and bliss as stated earlier. for those who practise meditational concentration and try to attain Samadhi31 keep this human form of God before them. The same form appears as bright as the light of billions of suns and there is no need for the torch or a lamp. Because of the will of God such divine light of God is invisible. If God desires to appear with light before a devotee, he sees such a form of God with light. He who has Nishchaya1 in God knows that God is with power and prosperity of Golok,32 Vaikunth,32 Shwetdweep,32 Brahmpura32 etc. and also with his attendants (Parshadas) and he is served by Radhika, Lakshmiji26 etc., such a devotee sees God, with supreme emotions but a senseless person looks upon God just as an ordinary human being. About this Shri Krishna Bhagwan15 had declared in Geeta Geeta : 9 . 11)
So, a senseless person does not know supreme status of God and thinks that God has the same thoughts, sentiments and emotions just like an ordinary person. What are these emotions ? They are lust, anger, avarice, attachment, egotism, envy, ho-pe hankering after joys etc. The emotions of Antahkarana33 and thoughts related to the body are about bones, skin, excreta, urine, birth, death, childhood, youth and old age. He imagines all these in God. He who has such concepts appears to have Nischaya1 in God but his Nischaya1 is weak. He is sure to fall from Satsang.

[harikrishna]

And the form of God is supreme, divine. These concepts about a human being are not at all applicable to God. So, removing the human concept of God one should have a divine concept about God. Then stage by stage, he should have sentiments like that of God's Brahma,34 Pradhan Purusha,35 Prakriti36 Purusha,36 Akshar37 and finally comes the sentiments about Purushottama15 who is above the Akshar. The Gopas or Vraj, at once, cultivated divine sentiments when they saw the amazing Leelas38 of Shri Krishna Bhagwan.15 Thereafter, on the words of Gargacharya,39 they thought him to be Lord Narayan15 and said to him, "You are cetrainly Lord Narayana.15 So, show your divine abode." Then he showed them Akshardam.37 The Nishchaya1 of a person should be known as perfect, when he has developed such divine sentiment for God.
Someone says, `At first this person had no Nishchaya1 in God and now he has cultivated the Nishchaya.1 Was he not seeing God earlier ? He was, certainly, seeing God but he was looking upon God just as an ordinary human being. But when he improved his Nishchaya,1 he saw God, with the concept. Then it should be known that he has Nishchaya.1 When a person has no such divine concept about God, he would feel offended now and then, and finds virtues as well as faults in God. He argues, "God favours this person but does not favour me. God calls this person but does not call me. He has more love for this person but has no love for me." He goes on finding virtues and faults like this is God. Thus day by day his heart drifts away from God, and falls back and finally he turns his face away from God. Also never to think of the devotees as an ordinary human being, because physically among these devotees, someone mey be blind, lame, laper, dumb or ugly but when they die, do they remain blind, lame etc ? They are divinised in abode of God. They assume divine forms, form of Brahm, after giving up all concepts about an ordinary human being. So how can you conceive God just as human being when you can not do the same about the devotees of God ?
And this topic either is to be understood and grasped thoroughly today or will have to be understood and grasped the same at the end of the century. And after grasping the topic, there is no other alternative except to keep it firmly in the mind. So all my devotees should remember this topic and narrate it to one another. If some one goes on wrong path, he should be warned by narrating this subject. It is my command that this subject should be read daily and listened to. Do not forget this. Do not forget it under any circumstances.
Shriji Maharaj, thereafter, said, "Jay Swaminarayan11 to all the devotees and returned to his chamber. Listening to this subject from Shriji Maharaj, all the saints and devotees were convinced that Shriji Maharaj was the Incarnator, the cause of all incarnations and they became verry firmer their concept of this divinity.

Thus Ends Vachanamrit : Loya - 18

Thus ended the discourses Delivered By Shriji Maharaj at Loya

1. Determinant firm faith in God. 2. Holy company of the saints and the devotees. 3. God's manifestation as boar. 4. Gods manifestation in the form of fish. 5. Gods manifestation in the form of turtle. 6. God's manifestation in the form of Leo-men. 7. God's manifestation in the form of a dwarf. 8. God's incarnation as great sage and the creator of scriptures, saint Ved-Vyas. 9. God's manifestation as one with upper body till neck as of Horse. 10. Horse. 11. Truth, consciousness and bliss. 12. Five sense objects. 13. Incarnation as Rama. 14. Incarnation as Krishna. 15. Supreme God. 16. A legendary deer who has eight feet, two heads, two wings & strong enough to kill a lion. 17. God Shiva. 18. A name given to Lord Shiva on his taking incarnation as Sharabh to fight with Nrisimh. 19. Great God Shiv. 20. Rock. 21. A divine flower which never fade. 22. Calf. 23. Supreme God. 24. Respectively father and mother of Lord Shri Krishna. 25. A devotee of Lord Shri Krishna. 26. Lord Shri Krishna. 27. A devotee and the friend of Lord Shri Krishna. 28. A devotee of Krishna. 29. A sage and devotee. 330. Yellow coloured silken lower clothe. 31. Meditational trance. 32. Divine abodes of God. 33. Composite form of mind, ego, intelligence etc. 34. A God, creator of this universe. 35. Primordial Purush. 36. One of the fine eternal entities. 37. Divine abode of Lord Purushottam. 38. Divine acts of God. 39. A sage. 40

[patl101]

why did harikrishna get banned?

[Don Penguinoini]

Yeah, whi did we get banned...

*MODS* Is the ban goign to be lifted?