Swami Narayan Hinduism and some questions. (ritual, incarnation, translation, disciples)

[Atman]

Namaste all.

I've been reading an online edition of the Shikshapatri ( the main holy book of Swami Narayan Hinduism), and I've found some things I have questions about, or that I feel bothered about

One shall never hear or believe those scriptures in which the existence of Lord Shree Krishna and his incarnations have been skilfully and deceitfully denied or degraded.

This one really bothers me. If we are strong in our faith, shouldn't we able to read or hear such religious scriptures without suddenly disbelieving in the divinity of lord Govinda?

My male disciples shall never listen to the religious discourses given by females, nor enter into arguments with female rulers and courtiers.

Why is this? It seems completely sexist and irrational to me. One of the people who influences me spiritually happens to be a female pundit, so I'm really bothered by this.

All those who come to the temples of Lord Shree Krishna either daily or on festival days, shall keep themselves away from the opposite sex, by not even touching.

Again this seems sexist and irrational to me. Is there any particular reason for this?

All my disciples shall go to temple everyday in the evening and there, they shall sing loudly, songs in praise of Lord Shree Krishna.

If I'm unable to go to a temple every evening is worship at a home altar acceptable?

Thanks in advance for any answers.

[Don Penguinoini]

1. Well, being A swaminarayan (not swami narayan) i think that you should resist all types of anti-god talking, if you are going to listen to someoen who bashes your lord, what is the point of it?

2. I must say, i dont know about this. Swaminarayan has some things which i dont agree with...

3. This is to focus only on god and nothing else. God and god only should have your attention in a mandir.

4. It doesent say Lord Shree Krishna, the real Shikshapatri says the kirtans of GOD. We should go to mandir, you have the company of sadhus who give sabha, there is much to be learned in mandir. So it is better to go to mandir. But it doesen't say you can't worship at home, i do.

Atman, welcome to the forums! Have a great time

[mahesh]

Originally Posted by Atman

Namaste all.

I've been reading an online edition of the Shikshapatri ( the main holy book of Swami Narayan Hinduism), and I've found some things I have questions about, or that I feel bothered about

This one really bothers me. If we are strong in our faith, shouldn't we able to read or hear such religious scriptures without suddenly disbelieving in the divinity of lord Govinda?

Why is this? It seems completely sexist and irrational to me. One of the people who influences me spiritually happens to be a female pundit, so I'm really bothered by this.

Again this seems sexist and irrational to me. Is there any particular reason for this?

If I'm unable to go to a temple every evening is worship at a home altar acceptable?

Thanks in advance for any answers.

First I shall state that acharyas and scholars of the Sanatan Dharma as in accordance to the Vedas have accepted the Sikshapatri and the Vachnamrut. Now I shall answer your questions. Secondly its Swaminarayan not Swami…Narayan.


1) We shouldn’t listen to discourses from the mouth of an atheist and the likes. This Sikshapatri is for Bhakts. hence if one is already a bhakt HE/She would already have faith in Shri Krishna. At times when tamogun is predominant in oneself litening to such talks would actually bring one down. The state of the mind at that point would be Tamsic so to listen to such talks, which skilfully deny the existence of Bhagwan and His avatars.

2) Bhai this is the Kaliyug not Satyug. You might not be affected by females or the natural sexual attraction which mankind possesses which the Panch Vishays are fed. However the majority of the world’s population would. Even in the Puran Brahma became lustful, Naradji wanted to remarry. There are many such incidents. So to listen to and look and females can give strength to such material desires. Hence Bhagwan Swaminarayan writes this. This is not a question of Sexism. As if you will read further scriptures of the Sampraday you will come to know this yourself. Even the likes of great Acharyas such as Swami Prabhupad have agreed with such teachings. If your guru is a female then the scriptures to do not recommend this for a Vaishnav. I think the Brahmvaivart Puran and Skand Puran etc too declare this.

3) Again this answer is the same. Males touching females for many would excite them be it in the temple or outside. Swaminarayan Bhagwan states that such niyams should be done within the temple and when one comes out of the temple they can behave normally. If Swaminarayan Bhagwan were sexist He would state such without reasons. But if you read the Sikshapatri bhashya you can clearly see that there are past scriptural reasons as well as scientific facts which to agree with these niyams.

If you are unable to attend temple then yes brother you may worship at home.

[mahesh]

Originally Posted by penguino

1

Originally Posted by penguino

2. I must say, i dont know about this. Swaminarayan has some things which i dont agree with...

4. It doesent say Lord Shree Krishna, the real Shikshapatri says the kirtans of GOD. We should go to mandir, you have the company of sadhus who give sabha, there is much to be learned in mandir. So it is better to go to mandir. But it doesen't say you can't worship at home, i do.

First of all you can’t be classed as a Swaminarayan devotee if you do not agree with some things which Swaminarayan Bhagwan states and only with some you do. You clearly state this yourself. Swaminarayan Bhagwan calls people like you a vimukh as you cannot cherry pick what you want just like a Christian cannot cherry pick some of the commandments of God. If they do they are not a Christian. I have many references to back up what I state.

Secondly, the original Sikshapatri clearly states that “All my disciples shall go to temple everyday in the evening and there, they shall sing loudly, songs in praise of Lord Shree Krishna”.

So you are wrong once again. You must be reading the doctored BAPS scripture. As obviously you are not reading the Sikshapatri as it is. How silly of you.

[Don Penguinoini]

Yes i can be classed as Swaminaryan. You have no right to tell me what i am, so shut up. Don't ever tell me i aint swaminarayan. If you have a problem with it, PM me, dont bang on about it so EVERYONE sees it, and posts get banned. Honestly, i really dont like you one bit anymore. You were fine until upto this post. Your acharya has sex with his women, so do their santos. Your devotees are mad rambling alcohlics. Look, get off my back, i hate you, i don't want to know your stupid scripture translations. If BAPS was so false, we would not be larger then you.

Oh, you agree with EVERYTHING in the Shikshapatri, if so, you are inhumane.

[Atman]

If your guru is a female then the scriptures to do not recommend this for a Vaishnav.

Namaste Mahesh. I am not Vaishnava, but Shaiva. Does this mean my guru can be female then?

Also could we do this without BAPS bashing here?

[Don Penguinoini]

Atman, i believe so. Men and women both have 4 limbs. one brain, two eyes and two ears. If females have the knowledge, then let them be gurus, i dont see why not.

Also, thank you for the last bit.

[mahesh]

Originally Posted by penguino

Yes i can be classed as Swaminaryan. You have no right to tell me what i am, so shut up. Don't ever tell me i aint swaminarayan. If you have a problem with it, PM me, dont bang on about it so EVERYONE sees it, and posts get banned. Honestly, i really dont like you one bit anymore. You were fine until upto this post. Your acharya has sex with his women, so do their santos. Your devotees are mad rambling alcohlics. Look, get off my back, i hate you, i don't want to know your stupid scripture translations. If BAPS was so false, we would not be larger then you.

Oh, you agree with EVERYTHING in the Shikshapatri, if so, you are inhumane.

No you can’t be classed as a Satsangi if you do not agree with Shriji maharaj. What a fool. What right I have I know about. You do not need to tell me. I was saying according To Shriji Maharaj you are classed as a vimukh. Why do you fear if everyone sees it? What’s true will remain true whether I PM you or not.

Whether you like me or not doesn’t matter to me. You do ninda of the Acharyas and saints. By the way the Acharya is a grahast, which means he is a householder not a renunciate. Also if you read Adharanand Swamis scripture it states clearly in Pur 7 Tarang 4 that the Dharmvanshi Grahast Acharya is and shall remain the heads of the Sampraday. No other heads can exist. So anyone else who thinks otherwise is a vachan drohi and a guru drohi and the betrayer of Swaminarayan Bhagwan.

Another thing I point out to you is that you do not even follow Sadguru Gunatitanand Swamis Vato. So how can you even be in accordance with BAPS? In swamis vato Swami states clearly that one should not take avgun of Acharyas. If one does he will fall from Satsang day by day. So how can you be a Satsangi and follower of Swaminarayan Sampraday? Even your Pramukh Swami does not do ninda of Acharyas yet you do.

You do not want to know the scriptures of Swaminarayan? How will you progress in spiritual advancement without scriptural knowledge? How can you say that one who agrees with the Sikshapatri is inhumane? LOL. Celina where are you now?? Is this how all BAPS followers think or just you as you have no knowledge and no dradh nistha of Bhagwan? So much for being a BAPS follower even. Im sure they are not all like you.

A follower of BAPS does not require this is that what you are stating? You post clearly indicate who the rambling madman is.

You vimukh, I am not on your back. To tell you the truth I would rather be away from you than close to you as your understanding is fishy.

[mahesh]

Originally Posted by Atman

Namaste Mahesh. I am not Vaishnava, but Shaiva. Does this mean my guru can be female then?

Also could we do this without BAPS bashing here?

im not familiar with the Shaivi Sampraday rules. But as indicated by Bhagwan its not ideal for a male to have female gurus and vice versa. females can be the gurus for females. Also the head of the female satsang is the wife of the Acharya as apointed by Shriji maharaj Himself. Men and women both have 4 limbs. one brain, two eyes and two ears the majority of the worlds population also have sexual attractions with each other. So there you go. If this attraction is present in satsang then all know what can happen. It will not let spiritual advancement to progress as Brahmcharya is very important. Even the Shaivas believe so as Shri mahadev is also a Urdhvareta Sagun avtaar of Bhagwan.




Secondly im not BAPS bashing im simply stating where the ystand in terms of the fundamental orthodox principles from teh Vedas which Swaminarayan Bhagwan Himself established.