Disunity... (incarnation, faith, God, Hinduism)

[Hema]

Originally Posted by hallo

How can there be more then one bhagawans, there is only one, this is very contradictive of you.

Yeah, that's what I've been trying to say!

[Aupmanyav]

Originally Posted by hallo

Ok..Um, that made no sesnse

What does not make sense to you?

[Aupmanyav]

Originally Posted by Hema

I would say that we are all Bhagwan. There is no flooding if there is only one Bhagwan.

I could not understand what you meant. My scriptures say, 'Purnamadah, Purnamidam, Purnat Purnamudachyate; Purnasya Purnamadaya Purnamevavasishyate'. Brahman is not divisible in pieces, it remains whole, one even in multiplicity.

[Aupmanyav]

Originally Posted by mahesh

LOl dont you believe in Brahman as everything? So what difference does it make to you? As we know what Swaminarayan Bhagwan did. HE established Ekantik Dharm. Ghyan, bhakti dharm and vairagya. So how can He be futile? LOl you would need to reasearch into His works to judge. But from what you judge of Him, such drivel, it can be clearly concluded that you have done no such thing.

There is greater wisdom available to hindus than editing job of some person. We have the Vedas, the Upanishads, and the Geeta.

[Aupmanyav]

Mahesh, you are always welcome. Brahman is always perfect. Maya to Brahman is like sweetness to sugar. Inseparable. Brahman is not affected by any thing, it is always one, and subtly extends to be percieved as many. Maya is our illusion, our perception has many limitations. There is no birth, no death, and no karma. Even in death, all your atoms are perfectly alive, they are not affected by your death. Brahman is even more subtle than that. Brahman is a quantum field (know something about that?).

[Hema]

Originally Posted by Aupmanyav

I could not understand what you meant. My scriptures say, 'Purnamadah, Purnamidam, Purnat Purnamudachyate; Purnasya Purnamadaya Purnamevavasishyate'. Brahman is not divisible in pieces, it remains whole, one even in multiplicity.

Yes, even if something is taken out from it, it still remians whole.

You mentioned that there is a flood of Bhagwans but there is only one Bhagwan - we just have many gurus who carry the message. Some are more attracted to one guru over another. It depends on the person's individual connection. Sometimes we have a spiritual connection with people we don't understand - it could be because of karmic connections in previous lifetimes.

[mahesh]

Originally Posted by Aupmanyav

Mahesh, you are always welcome. Brahman is always perfect. Maya to Brahman is like sweetness to sugar. Inseparable. Brahman is not affected by any thing, it is always one, and subtly extends to be percieved as many. Maya is our illusion, our perception has many limitations. There is no birth, no death, and no karma. Even in death, all your atoms are perfectly alive, they are not affected by your death. Brahman is even more subtle than that. Brahman is a quantum field (know something about that?).

If there is no death then why did you mention "even in death". LOL> By the way when death comes your particles are burnt. The Panch Mahabhoot go back into themselves. For exampe earth to earth, Akaash to akash.

[mahesh]

HAha. Just by you agreeing to somthing doesnt make it true, as you are imperfect yourself. But according to you there will be no such thing as perfect for there is no karma. As if there was all cannot be Brahman.

If all is Brahman then where does the Maya you talk of come from and How does it affect the all powerfull Brahman. As you state that Hitler too is Brahman but just embroiled hevily in Maya. For if it does affect Brahman that makes two entities. Not just that but the reaction between the two makes Karma. So how is this possible?

Also if there is Maya how is it created according to your belief system? Also is the Maya you talk of an eternal entity? What is its nature and its attributes? WHat purpose deos it serve?

We want to hear this from your point of view as we already have the answers hence just intrested.

You are not even worthy of debate wit hteh knowledge you have.

[Aupmanyav]

Originally Posted by mahesh

If there is no death then why did you mention "even in death". LOL> By the way when death comes your particles are burnt. The Panch Mahabhoot go back into themselves. For exampe earth to earth, Akaash to akash.

Because those who do not understand see that as death. Even pancha-bhootas are made of just one, and that is Brahman.

[Aupmanyav]

Originally Posted by mahesh

We want to hear this from your point of view as we already have the answers hence just intrested.

My karmas are my illusions and that of others who see me as a mortal. Karmas are the properties of our illusionary world. The Brahman in us, what underlies us, is not involved in Karmas. Brahman is what it is.

As I mentioned somewhere in this forum, Maya is our faulty perception. Our senses are very limited. Out of the whole spectrum of light we can see only one part composed of seven colours. But the actually range is very large going from x-rays to ultra-violet to infra-red. We can hear only some sounds within a particular range. Dogs can hear more. We can see only a certain size of things, magnification. If we see with a telescope or a microscope, a whole new range of things is seen. An electron microscope can even show us the outline and arrangement of atoms. With this limited perception, our brain makes its conclusions, which naturally will be wrong. This is Maya.

When one does not see or understand beyond this superficial perception, one is said to be embroiled in Maya. Hitler failed to see the essential unity of all mankind (the unity extends even beyond the mankind) and persecuted the jews. But this has nothing to do with what he was made of, because Brahman in him was not involved in such actions. Brahman is only something like the raw material. For example, a gun can kill, but that is no fault of the iron.

Yes, Maya will be there till there are beings with faulty perception. In the sun, there is no one to perceive, so there is no Maya, just the frolick of Brahman, Brahman in its raw state. Nature also is of two types, raw and percieved. In the raw form it is Brahman, one that underlies. What we percieve is Samsara because what we make of of it is with our faulty perception. We see lions and deer where there are atoms only. Atoms, too for those who do not know, in reality it is quantum field, something like a force field. Maya carries on the Samsara.

To have decided without knowing a thing is called being prejudiced.