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  #121  
Old 05-22-2007, 04:36 PM
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The true devotees of the authentic Swaminarayan Sampraday recognise that Shriji Maharaj is Sarva Avtaari.

Pragat Purshottam Narayan Sarva Avtaari is Bhagwan Swaminarayan. He before came as Shri Krishna and Shri Raam who were Pari Purna Avtaars. It is the same Bhagwaan there is no difference. But His mulswaup is as Bhagwan Swaminarayan who is Avtaari, Lord Swaminarayan is the cause of such previous Avtaars.

Bhagwan Swaminarayan is Sarvavtaari here is what’s written in the authentic scriptures as to why. 13 descriptions are given:

- The acts of avatars before were seen performed in Bhagwan Swaminarayan

-Abodes such as Vaikunth, Golok etc the Murtis of God there and aishwaria were are all seen in human form of Bhagwan Swaminarayan on earth.

- Any type of souls whether evil or divine had samadhi from the murtis of God easily.

- Divine acts of previous avatars were seen in the devotees of Bhagwan Swaminarayan

- Thousands and thousands of People went into samadhi and saw Purna Purshottam Parbrahm Swaminarayan Bhagwan sitting on the throne in Akshardham (Parampad), then became followers.

- All scriptures such as Yog, Sankhya Vedas and their meanings were easily understood when read by Swaminarayan Bhagwan.

- All types of people without belief previously saw Him and instantly got attached to His form.

- Bhagwan personally comes Himself to pick up His devotees at the end of their lives.

- All followed Ekantik Dharm (Dharm, Gyan Bhakti and Vairagya) very easily just because Bhagwan Swaminarayan told them to

- All the devotees who saw or touched the of Bhagwan Swaminarayan (even His wooden slippers) got antardrashti and even samadhi and went to His Abodes such as Akshardham, Golok, Vaikunth, Shwetdweep, Badrik Ashram, Pushkar Dham etc.

- People even today get attached to Lord Swaminarayan from His katha and name His name alone.

- People saw Akshar, Mul prakruti, Mul Purush, Pradhan purush, Vairaj Purush, Ishwars through Samadhi easily by the Grace of Bhagwan Swaminarayn.

- All avatars were seen absorbed in Bhagwan Swaminarayan in His abode (Akshardham) while in Samadhi but his murti was never absorbed in any other avtaars Murti.

Yet this doesn’t mean that the other Avatars are not Him. But it does mean that he is Sarv Avtaari and the cause of all, Parbrahm Purushottam. We should NEVER EVER discard any avatar whatsoever. This is a sin, and those that do go to hell. All the saints of Bhagwan Swaminarayan too stated this.

There is nothing wrong in worshipping these avtaars as they are all of Him.
  #122  
Old 05-25-2007, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram View Post
No Swaminarayana dharma is in perfect tune with traditional vedic dharma.
No, Swaminarayana is not Sanatan Dharma of Hindus. Vaishnava parampara of Sanatan Dharma recognizes ten avataras, the last being Buddha and the tenth, Kalki, to come only after 427,000 years later. There is no place for any more. Those who make any other person into a God are not Hindus. If one is 'Advaitist', then the person agrees that everything is 'Brahman', every woman or man, a tiger, a dog, a neem treee, even the stone in River Yamuna. I am an 'advaitist', hell cannot frieghten me.

Last edited by Aupmanyav; 05-26-2007 at 01:09 PM..
  #123  
Old 05-25-2007, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Aupmanyav View Post
No, Swaminarayana is not Sanatan Dharma of Hindus.
again this is according to you. You don't have final authority on anything in Sanatana Dharma. Peace!
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  #124  
Old 05-25-2007, 09:09 PM
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Of course, I can express only my views as you express yours. It is not my authority, it is the authority of our scriptures, the authority of SrimadBhagawad Purana, which should be revered by any Vaishnava worth his/her salt.

Last edited by Aupmanyav; 05-26-2007 at 01:17 AM..
  #125  
Old 05-28-2007, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Aupmanyav View Post
Unfortunately you have not shown us even one. The Wikipedia article also does not mention any. This is what is given there:

As an elaboration to this shlok, Sadguru Shree Shatanand Muni writes in Artha Dipika (Shikshapatri Bhashya)

"Yaha Saakshaat Bhagvaan Ksharakhara Paraha Krshnaha Sa Eva Svayam Bhaktau Dharmat Aas, Bhoori Krupaya Sri Svaminarayanaha Maanushyam Bhuvi Naatayannijjan Acharyatvadharme Sthitaha Krshnam Praha Parokshavann Tu Tatonyaha Sosti Yatsa Svayam"

"That live (saakshat) God (bhagvan) Krishna who is above kshar and akshar, appeared from Bhakti through Dharma as Swaminarayan; assumed a human body on the earth like a dramatist (natta). That Krishna whilst observing the (human) dharmas of an Acharya speaks in third person (parokshavann) but that Krishna is none other than Himself."

This is a comment by a Swaminarayana follower, and therefore, cannot be taken as unbiased. Shikshapatri is a Swaminarayana holy book.

Even the Swaminarayana page in Wikipedia mentions, "Bhagwan Swaminarayan (April 3, 1781 - 1830) was born Ghanshyam Pande to a Brahmin family in the village of Chhapaiya, Uttar Pradesh, India. His father's name was Hariprasad Pande (also known as Dharmadev) and his mother's name was Premvati (also known as Bhaktimata)." In this way you can also say that I am Dharmadeva and my wife is Murti (The Wikipedia article does not even mention Murti, it calls Premavati as Bhaktimata, which surely is a name given to her after Swaminarayana became prominent in Gujarat).

The base line is that nine avataras of Lord Vishnu have appeared (ending with Lord Buddha, the tenth would come at the end of Kaliyuga, which is 427,000 years away. The rest who make the claim in the intervening period are imposters.
There is Prediction in Adhyaya 18 of the Vasudev Mahatmya of Skand Purana that Supreme Lord Narayan will be born to Dharma and Bhakti and abolish adharma on earth.

EDIT: FOUND IT!

Well here is the Quote from Shri Vasudev Mahatmya- whivh in theSkand Puran that quotes that Akshardham is there, it is in adhyay 18 where Lord Vasudev speaks to Narad (shloka 6 and 7):

Asavhamhi Brahmansminakshardhamani
Radhalakshmiyuto nityam vasami svasriteyha sah
vasudevSvarupoham sarvakarmfalpradah
antaryamitaya varte svatantraha sarvadehinaam

Shri Narad uvaach (adhyay 19 shloka 11):

Bhagvanstvatprasaden tamham parmeshvaram
vasudevam samaloke stithmakshardhamni

Lord Swaminarayan himself has been predicted clearly here as Krishna to be born in Kaliyug in a Samvedi brahmin family, father being dharmdev and mother Murti. Both Nar and narayan born because of muni's curse(18th adhyay shloka 42, 43, 44 Shri Vasudev Mahatymyam :


Shri Vasudev uvaach:
mayaa krushnen nihataha sarjunen raneshu yeh
pravartishyantyasuraste tvadharm yada kshito
dharmdevatda murto narnarayanatmana
pravurtepi kalo brhman! bhutvaham saamgo dvijaha
munishapannrutam praptam sarshi jankamatmanaha
tattovitta gurubhyoham sadharm sthapayannaj

Clearly explains that I as Nar and Narayan will be born to dharm and Moorti who after a curse from muni (Dhurvasa in Badrikashram) will all be born on the earth. i as a saam vedi dvija will be born to rid of evil and prevail rightousness (sadharm).

if people oppose that Shloka in any way then that is there own buddhi allowing them. I believe that Lord swaminarayan Born from Dharmdev and Bhaktimata was Nar Narayan Incarnate. He promised these incarnations to take place to Brahma as he says to Narad as well as saying that:

after explaining many of his avtaars to Narad including Lord Swaminarayan but note No Chaitanya Mahaprabhu here!!: Shloka 46:

Shri Vasudev Uvaach:
yada yada cha vedokto dharmo nashishyate sureiyha
pradurbhavo bhavishyo me tadrakshaye tada tada

hey brahmin narad. i have not described ALL of the avtaars which i will take. there are many more which when evil prevails on Earth i take. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT JUST BECUASE CHAITANYA MAHAPRABHU WAS NOT MENTIONED in the vasudev mahatmya THAT HE WAS NOT KRISHNA!! SEE WHAT I MEAN? HE WAS KRISHNA TOO AND AS A VAISHNAVI LORD SWAMINARAYAN FOLLOWER I TOO ACCEPT THAT. I ALSO KNOW FOR A FACT LORD SWAMINARAYAN WAS INCARNATE OF SHRI NAR NARAYAN. THERE CAN BE NO OTHER.

after narating all this to Narad lord vasudev asked Narad to go Meet Nar Narayan in Badrikashram which he does so.

Other sampradays will totally say "this is all fake and that it doesnt explain Lord Swaminarayan". You people are entitled to your own decision.

Lord Swaminarayan himself declared that he was Lord Nar Narayan and because of a shraap of Dhurvasa he was born. He used Dhurvasa as a nimmitt as he wanted to be born to rid of evil. Durvasa didnt get repect in teh assembly at Badrikashram where many were theri to meet him like: Marich, Uddhav, dharmdev, vashisht, etc. These were all cursed to be born on Earth and suffer at the hands of evil. Yet Dharmdev asked for forgivness and Dhurvasa couldnt take his curse back but explained that Lord Nar Naraayn himself will be born in Kaushal desh as his Son once again and rid of evil. Thus Dhurvasa fled and so Lord Swaminarayan was born in a village in Chapaiya i think 32 km away from Ayodhya. Markandya muni named him hari, krishna, harikrishna and Nyalkaran. he was later named as Ghanshyam by his mother as he was like the clouds in colour. Then he was given names like saryu das, Nilkanth, given diksha bu Ramanand Swami who was uddhav incarnate and named him Sahajanand Swami. Then The lord gave the Mantra Swaminarayan to all. It gave the sakshatkaar of narayan who is the Swami for all (himself). He was then referred to Lord Swaminarayan. 108 names were composed for him like bhaktvatsal, adroyhay, rujve, mahapurushay, bhaktidhamatmajay, marutsutpriyay etc. He constructed temples of Lord Nar narayan (himself) and Laxmi narayan, gopinath, siddeshwar mahadev, hanumaji Maharaj etc...
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Last edited by celina; 05-28-2007 at 05:13 AM..
  #126  
Old 05-28-2007, 04:59 AM
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Smile forgot

here's more:

He was the lord himself.
Padma Puran:
II Datatrayam krutyuge,
tretayaam raghunandana,
dvapare vasudevaha,
kalou swami vrushatmaja II

Vishnu Dharmottar:
II Pakhandbahuleloke swami namna hari swayam,
papank nimagnam tajuddhaaryishyati II

II Mahadharmanvye punye,
naamna paapvinashke,
hariprasad vivrasya,
swami namna hari svayam II

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  #127  
Old 05-28-2007, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decentindian View Post
"Swaminarayan Bhagwan is the ultimate reality; there is plenty of proof and evidence of this"

Show me this "proof", from the scriptures.

"When Swaminarayan uses the word ‘Krishna’ in the Shikshapatri he is clearly referring to himself"

He clearly is not, In the very first verse of the Shikshapatri Swaminarayan says who Krishna is. Swaminarayan describes Krishna as the one who has Radha by his side, in whose heart resides Lakshmi, and plays in Vrndavan with his bhaktas.

"Krishna was extremely popular and it would seem awkward"

Why would it seem awkward? Did his devotees at the time he was present doubt him? Did Gunatitanad Swami doubt him?

Krishna in Sanskrit can also be derived to mean ‘God’

So ? Maybe thats because Krishna is God, LOL

"Has Krishna Bhagwan said in his own words “I am God and no other is beyond myself”?"

Yes he has, in the Bhagavad Gita, and the Srimad Bhagavatam:

"I am the goal, the sustainer, the master, the witness, the abode, the refuge and the most dear friend. I am the creation and the annihilation, the basis of everything, the resting place and the eternal seed."

"I am the only enjoyer and the only object of sacrifice. Those who do not recognize My true transcendental nature fall down."

"He who knows Me as the unborn, as the beginningless, as the Supreme Lord of all the worlds--he, undeluded among men, is freed from all sins."

The above are a few verses from the Bhagavad Gita, where Krishna spoke to Arjun, on the eve of battle in the Mahabharat.
He most obviously claims to be GOD,

Not surprising really, Swaminarayan said the same, his devotees did not listen!!!

Shree Krishna Sharanam mama
Swaminarayan's other name is Krshna.

During that part of the 18th century in Western India there were numerous faiths, followings, cults and movements each with different and contradicting philosophies, teachings and practices. At times there were more ‘incarnations’ of God than followers themselves. A further reason for Sahajanand Swami accepting Lord Shree Krshna into the Swaminarayan Sampraday as istadeva was because
a) Lord Shree Krshna was a true incarnation of God
b) Shree Sahajanand Swami preferred the Bhakti marga that Lord Shree Krshna propagated
c) Lord Shree Krshna was a universally accepted form of God
In fact Shree Sahajanand Swami was a great admirer of the Vaishnav bhakti tradition and adopted many of its practices for the Swaminarayan Sampraday

In the Shikshapatri Shlok 108 Sahajanand Swami writes
“sa sri krshnaha param brahma bhagvaan purushotamaha
upasya ishtadevo naha sarvaavirbhaav kaaranam”
"That isvara is Shree Krshna who is PraBrahma Bhagwan Purushottam and our most cherished deity (istadeva). He is worthy of being worshipped by us all (upasya). He is the cause of all manifestations and incarnations"

As an elaboration to this shloka, Sadguru Shree Shatanand Muni writes in Artha Dipika (Shikshapatri Bhashya):
"yaha saakshaat bhagvaan ksharakhara paraha krshnaha
sa eva svayam bhaktau dharmat aas, bhoori krupaya sri svaminarayanaha
maanushyam bhuvi naatayannijjan acharyatvadharme sthitaha
krshnam praha parokshavann tu tatonyaha sosti yatsa svayam”

“That live (saakshat) God (bhagvan) Krshna who is above kshar and akshar, appeared from Bhakti through Dharma as Swaminarayan; assumed a human body on the earth like a dramatist (natta). That Krshna whilst observing the (human’s) dharmas of an Acharya speaks in third person (parokshavann) but that Krshna is none other than Himself”

i.e. that Krshna that Swaminarayan Bhagwan speaks of is none other than Himself, however Krshna is referred to by Swaminarayan Bhagwan in third person form (parokshavann) because Swaminarayan Bhagwan is writing the Shikshapatri in the capacity of an Acharya or Guru (acharyatvadharme).

Swaminarayan Bhagwan was indeed a Guru, Sadhu, Acharya, Teacher and even a devotee of Krshna. But this does not contradict His status as God.
For if this were the case then Lord Rama was a King and fulfilled His role as the ruler of Ayodhya. Lord Krshna was a cowherd and later the King of Dwarika. Also, Lord Nar Narayana were brahmchari-rishis performing tappascharya in Badrik Ashram. Does this imply that they were not God just because they were kings, a cowherd or rishis?

Also note:
“nanvastan sri krshnasya parabrahmatvam moolpurushsya bhagavatastu krshnashabda vachyatvam na ghatate. Dvaaparante devaki vasudevabhyam avirbhavantaram krshnam prvrtti siddheriti chettann. Vasudev gruh aavirbhaavatpragev bhagavataha krshnakhyatve sakalam brahmvaivarta puran mev pramanam”.
Shatananda Muni as a commentary to Shikshapatri Shlok 29.

THE ETERNAL KRSHNA THOUGH IS THE PARABRAHMA BUT THE NAME DOES NOT SUIT MOOLPURUSH (ORIGINAL CAUSAL PERSONALITY) BECAUSE THE GOD (AS MOOL PURUSH) MANIFESTED AT THE END OF DWAPARA TO DEVAKI AND VASUDEV AND THEN GARGACHARYA NAMED HIM ‘KRSHNA’.
NOTE, THAT AFTER THE BIRTH OF GOD TO DHARMADEV AND BHAKTIDEVI, MARKANDEY RUSHI NAMED HIM KRSHNA (AS WELL AS HARI AND HARIKRSHNA). THEREFORE WHOEVER SAYS THAT THE NAME ‘KRSHNA’ BECAME PREVALENT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL (IN MATHURA AT THE END OF DWAPARA TO VASUDEV AND DEVAKI) IS NOT RIGHT IN DOING SO, BECAUSE GOD'S ETERNAL NAME IS KRSHNA (ALL ATTRACTIVE) AND EVEN BEFORE MANIFESTING TO VASUDEV AND DEVAKI
BRAHMVAIVARTA PURAN USES THE TERM KRSHNA MANY TIMES OVER.

The Srimad Bhagavatam in 1st Skandha, 3rd Adhyay, 28th Shloka therefore declares after listing 24 avatars including Vasudev Krishna that
“ete chamsh kalaha pumsaha, krshnastu bhagavan svayam”

i.e. all these (i.e.24 listed including Vasudev Krshna) are various portions of the Supreme. Bhagavat refers to this same ‘eternal’ Krshna, that Artha Dipika speaks of, as Bhagwan Himself.

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  #128  
Old 05-28-2007, 04:29 PM
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hey you are using all my work!!! I published all this material

MAhesh
  #129  
Old 05-28-2007, 04:31 PM
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You didnt ask me either! I wouldnt mind. But you are a BAPS follower. I dont approve of you using such material. As your Upasna is devoid of MAharaj's teachings.
  #130  
Old 05-28-2007, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aupmanyav View Post
So Baps is not Swaminarayana and the two saints are. Please tell us who these two saints are? Are they the Vadtal Swamis? Such gurus, who declare themselves to be Bhagwan or whose followers declare them to be Bhagwan have harmed Hinduism immensely. The line I love the most is 'Guru ko maro Goli' (shoot the guru). They are heretics and not real gurus. Most are engaged in dishonest financial transactions or sexual crimes. They take advantage of the simplicity of hindus. Hindus should remember that everyone of them is a part of 'Brahman'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aupmanyav View Post
You Swaminarayanas and your lineal and non-lineal gurus who have monopolized <strike>wisdom</strike> conflict, you are laughable and pitiable. Is it 'dharma' or money? You and your gurus have not learned anything of Hinduism. It is really a shame. Keep on fighting among yourself. Bravo. You mean Gavaskar's son must be in the Indian squad. Being a follower or a progeny does not guarantee wisdom.
lol, this is a cheap shot. This doesn't affect the authenticity of the Original Sampradaya, that Bhagavan Swaminarayan established.
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