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  #31  
Old 07-07-2012, 12:48 PM
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dear prabhu ,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seyorni View Post
"Married celibate" is an oxymoron.
Celibacy is the state of being unmarried. Abstinence from sex is chastity.
in correct !

chastity is purity , sita mata who was devoted to lord rama was concidered chased whilst maried and still young It was her devotion to her husband that won her the title chased , pure !in this context chastity has nothing to do with celibacy .

celibacy is not only a state of the bramachari who has not yet taken up family life , or the position of the sanyasi in the fully renounced order of life , but may also be a stage that one has reached in ones life when one begins to renounce simply by reaching a point in ones life where one has no taste for such things .

therefore one may easily be both married and celibate , after all there is more to marage than sex , ......for example a realisation of ones dharma .

Last edited by ratikala; 07-07-2012 at 01:13 PM.. Reason: spelling
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  #32  
Old 07-07-2012, 04:39 PM
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Ratikala,

Quote:
but may also be a stage that one has reached in ones life when one begins to renounce simply by reaching a point in ones life where one has no taste for such things .
I see no problem with this, the keyword is may, and reaching a point where you can focus more on your spiritual life.

But the article was talking about requirements for married couples if you join this order. I think this is too much and completely unnecessary.



Maya
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  #33  
Old 07-07-2012, 04:49 PM
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This idea, as others have mentioned, would be a NATURAL outcome, not a forced one. The subconscious mind, in and of itself has a rebellious nature, so trying to force it into something it isn't ready for is like trying on clothing that is 3 sizes too small .. you may want it to fit, but it doesn't.
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  #34  
Old 07-07-2012, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratikala View Post
but may also be a stage that one has reached in ones life when one begins to renounce simply by reaching a point in ones life where one has no taste for such things .
This is the key. As Ramakrishna says, the flower falls off when the fruit is ripe.
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  #35  
Old 07-07-2012, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wannabe Yogi View Post
This also applies to the Vaishnava community. How many Swami's have fallen, how many scandals around sex, stories are un-ending.
True. Not everyone is endeavoring with sincerity and resolute purpose to achieve the bliss of association with Supreme Lord. Soul is blissful by nature and is seeking bliss. So, falldowns can and do happen. Which community do they not happen in...they are in the Ramakrishnas, Shaktas, Shaivas...everywhere.

Still, for such occasional fall downs of devotees, Lord Kṛṣṇa says:

api cet su-durācāro
bhajate mām ananya-bhāk
sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ
samyag vyavasito hi saḥ

Even if one commits the most abominable action, if he is engaged in devotional service he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated in his determination.[B.G. 9.30]
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Last edited by Vrindavana Das; 07-07-2012 at 08:46 PM..
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  #36  
Old 07-08-2012, 12:44 AM
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dear maya ,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maya3 View Post

What do you think about this? I know it's an ISKCON view and not a mainstream Hindu view. But how many people actually do this, both within ISKCON and in other traditions?
many serious spiritual aspirants aspire to this practice it is not just ISCON, it is a comon practice amongst serious buddhists also.

returning to the article you originaly sited , .....
Quote:
Discipline has fallen out of fashion in our post-post-modern world. In previous generations, it was seen as a rite of passage, or even a calling (look at the strictness and sacrifice of the American and British peoples supporting the war effort in World War II as an example), now it is seen as a perversion of our natural desires, of our very striving for freedom.
Without some consideration of the power of our instincts, and a practice to control and harness this power, what we may call “freedom” is actually servitude to the negative forces of lust, envy, greed and pride that are within us and all around us.
one may not chose this for them selves but anyone realising this must be respected , personaly I am in total agreement with the above ,

Quote:
My personal opinion is that it is crazy. Really, it's too extreme.
It is as simple as this any serious aspirant will say the same whatever traditionhe or she comes from .

yes of course sex life has its place within a loving relationship , but in the west too much empasis is placed upon sensual pleasures and such pleasures belong to the material world , if one is seriously aspiring towards a spiritual life the taste for physical pleasures needs to be put into some proportionate perspective .

it is neither crazy or too extreme , It may not be the choise you wish to make at this moment but there is a wonderfull much used expression "you canot have your feet in two boats" ,meaning spiritual life and material life , and that at some point you will have to choose between the two .that point is up to you.

Quote:
If you decide to be a monk an join an Ashram... but most ashrams are not celibate I don't think? At least not mine.
Anyway, if you do decide to be a Sanyassin and save your sexual energy to have more powerful meditations, and really devote your life to reach Moksha then sure I can respect it. But within marriage unless you are going to produce a child?
yes, I think the line is , ... it saves un wanted progeny !, ... it allso saves many other problems some posts here seem to state that a marraige is held together by the sexual relationship , what happened to love and respect for another ? if a marraige is no longer tenable without sex then it is a false marraige based upon (as the original post describes) lust !

Quote:
I think its sad and unnecessary, living with someone can be hard enough, but to never have sex, it would only work for so long after a while you would start to get irritated with each other (more irritated than usual).
Having intimacy is very good for couples, it strengthens the relationship and keeps the bind between them.

Maya
I am not suggesting that you give up sex but concider this , ...try giving it up for a short period of time , try living with your partner and descovering the other important factors of a relationship which bind two souls together , there is so much more to a relationship and so many other forms of love which in truth are the bindingcord .
If two persons are committed to a marraige there are many hurdles to be overcome and the practice of dicipline can be very usefull , you say living together can be"hard enough" ... so again for the exercise consider also what makes life hard , and consider the added strain we place upon a relationship by holding on to the "negative forces of lust, envy, greed and pride" through dicipline we can remove much of the strains of life , try asking what is this irritation and where does it come from ?.... desire !

a true marraige is a relationship and a commitment to loving support and co operation ,and a true spiritual marraige is one in which two people aspire to progress upon a path together . if one wishes then to include children into the equasion then that marraige is the perfect place to raise a child .

sorry I am not intending this to appear as a lecture , but simply concider it advice from an older sister
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  #37  
Old 07-08-2012, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrindavana Das View Post
...everywhere.
Very true !!! It concerns me most when I see it in myself.
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  #38  
Old 07-08-2012, 02:42 AM
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ratikala uses cutesy baby talk to say, 'There's my widdle fwubal!  Yez you are!  Yez you are!'ratikala uses cutesy baby talk to say, 'There's my widdle fwubal!  Yez you are!  Yez you are!'ratikala uses cutesy baby talk to say, 'There's my widdle fwubal!  Yez you are!  Yez you are!'ratikala uses cutesy baby talk to say, 'There's my widdle fwubal!  Yez you are!  Yez you are!'ratikala uses cutesy baby talk to say, 'There's my widdle fwubal!  Yez you are!  Yez you are!'ratikala uses cutesy baby talk to say, 'There's my widdle fwubal!  Yez you are!  Yez you are!'ratikala uses cutesy baby talk to say, 'There's my widdle fwubal!  Yez you are!  Yez you are!'
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dear wanabe ji

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wannabe Yogi View Post
Very true !!! It concerns me most when I see it in myself.
not wanting to offend , but at least you see it , one who sees his or her weakness takes shelter of the lord and in time becomes strong ....

it is those that do not reflect upon human weakness that assume to be elevated and subsequently fall down .

jai to all humble servants
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  #39  
Old 07-08-2012, 07:00 AM
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Another problem with the 'be extremely disciplined' approach is that when one fails, they can fall into the 'beating oneself up emotionally' syndrome which probably does more harm that good.

Recently, I have been hearing 'Tools, not rules" as a remedy for this. All of our sadhanas are tools. In western religious thinking, it is often presented as rules. When its presented as a tool for betterment, then there is an implied reason for doing stuff. This leads to a better understanding of the whys, rather than the old "we do it because we've always done it' sort of simplistic thinking.
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  #40  
Old 07-08-2012, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ratikala View Post
dear maya

returning to the article you originaly sited , .....
one may not chose this for them selves but anyone realising this must be respected , personaly I am in total agreement with the above ,
I have nothing against people who decide that this is what they want to do. What I do object to is the requirement.

Quote:
yes of course sex life has its place within a loving relationship , but in the west too much empasis is placed upon sensual pleasures and such pleasures belong to the material world , if one is seriously aspiring towards a spiritual life the taste for physical pleasures needs to be put into some proportionate perspective .
Honestly, I think it will be put into perspective by itself. There isn't that much time in a day, you go to work, you go home, you cook, you eat, you clean, you sleep.... etc.

Quote:
it is neither crazy or too extreme , It may not be the choise you wish to make at this moment but there is a wonderfull much used expression "you canot have your feet in two boats" ,meaning spiritual life and material life , and that at some point you will have to choose between the two .that point is up to you.
I think you CAN have your feet in two boots. It just takes longer.

Quote:
yes, I think the line is , ... it saves un wanted progeny !, ... it allso saves many other problems some posts here seem to state that a marraige is held together by the sexual relationship , what happened to love and respect for another ? if a marraige is no longer tenable without sex then it is a false marraige based upon (as the original post describes) lust !
You can use birth control.
There is room for love and respect and friendship as well as sex. In fact sex strengthens these bonds of friendship and respect.

Quote:
I am not suggesting that you give up sex but concider this , ...try giving it up for a short period of time , try living with your partner and descovering the other important factors of a relationship which bind two souls together , there is so much more to a relationship and so many other forms of love which in truth are the bindingcord .
My husband and i have been married for 18 years. Believe me I know that there are other important factors in a relationship.

Quote:
If two persons are committed to a marraige there are many hurdles to be overcome and the practice of dicipline can be very usefull , you say living together can be"hard enough" ... so again for the exercise consider also what makes life hard , and consider the added strain we place upon a relationship by holding on to the "negative forces of lust, envy, greed and pride" through dicipline we can remove much of the strains of life , try asking what is this irritation and where does it come from ?.... desire !

a true marraige is a relationship and a commitment to loving support and co operation ,and a true spiritual marraige is one in which two people aspire to progress upon a path together . if one wishes then to include children into the equasion then that marraige is the perfect place to raise a child .

sorry I am not intending this to appear as a lecture , but simply concider it advice from an older sister
You know, I didn't ask you for marriage advice. And what makes you think you are older than me? I don't need to try any celibacy exercises. Life gets in the way, there are plenty of natural times when there is no time for sex.
Please don't make assumptions.

Maya
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