Joy, Misery and depression (doom, attend, experience, pray, verse)

[michel]

I guess this is inspired partly by the self realization thread, and also 'Do demons exist ?'

I want to propose a belief of mine, which is fundamental to life, as I see it, for disection and discussion.

To me, the experiences of life are much like a graph;



I have show three people above. me, a psychotic, and a 'normal' person (whatever that might be)lol - it is unimportant.

The vertical axis is top - extreme joy, bottom desperate misery; the horizontal axis is time (birth on the left, whith time 'travelling' towards the right)

The psychopath (who cabnnot feel emotion, because of his ilness) spends the whole of his life right on the middle line (exactly half way between the two extremes) - in a dead straight line; no feelings, just numbness no Joy, no sorrow - it is as if he was totally devoid of feelings (which his brain has made him be, because of a genetic error or chemical imbalance, whatever the reason).

We then have Joe publis (I've called him Normal). He goes through life, having some moments of joy, some of sadness . If you look at the graph, you can see what I mean.

Then there is me; the 'different' person . Sometimes I go yo peaks of bliss unknow to Joe Public, or Mr Psychopath; but I also have depths of despair like you wouldn't want to know.

The thing is, that the sum of the positive feelings (for any one person) has got to equal the sum of the negative feelings. The quantity and amount of stuff above the centre line has to equal in quantity the stuff below. Whci means we are basically all the same; Joe Public has his good moments, and the bad ones; they cancel each other out (mathematically speaking), so that his norm is the centre line (the zero value).

Mr Psychopath, well, poor chap, he feels nothing anytime, so he will also end up with a norm on the centre line.

Me ? I've had times when I truly believe no one could have ever understood the hights I have been on (Love, holding my new born)......But to such an extreme that it is impossible to describe....Of course, as the 'norm' has to be the centre line, it means I have to spend periods way down deep; so deep Joe public has no idea.

Make sense ?

I'll just post that for starters, and see if there is any response...........

[Dark_Waltz]

Do you ever wonder if feeling nothing is easier than feeling anything at all?
I used to think that if there were no thoughts in my head there would be no pain.

[Solon]

Michel, interesting graph. My take is that what constitutes normal feelings are somewhat different for each and every individual. My own moods can swing from wild optomism to pessimistic doom and gloom. I've had highs, no doubt in repsone to external stimuli causing rushes of chemicals around the brain. I've had lows, and everyone of these moods is an emotional respone to perceptions of how the world should be and feel.

They say that one should strive for stability in mental functioning, but given the make up of human beings, I don't think that's possible.

I think it was Schopenhauer who described Happiness as the temporary cessation of suffering. I subscribe to his view point, because as you know, the highs don't last, and lows linger on.

Solon

[jeffrey]

Let me get Rebecca to read this. I'm sure she'll understand better. I've been up driving, so give me a while to digest this.

[ChrisP]

Hi Michel,

I'm interested to see where this goes, interesting ideas. I'd take you up on the "Normal person" thing, but I know we both pretty much agree there is no one "normalness" to be aspired to, and that this is a point of reference.

I disagree in that Joe Publis emotional states are equal on both sides of the coin. This is for 2 reasons.

1. I know many "normal" people, and they also experience more bad than good times. That is why all people cherish the good times when they come around, as they know they may have to wait for the next ones.

2. Emotional states cannot be limited to good or bad they are much too diverse for this.

I think experiencing emotions like you do (and likewise others on this forum ) is not necessarily 'bad' or 'undesirable' either. A normal person would never understand the strength required to continue despite ultimate mental adversity. Relative to this adverse mental state happiness is bliss, and as it is amped up above the normal happiness or joy, bliss becomes an apt desciption.

Anyway....

Snale

Originally Posted by Dark_Waltz

Do you ever wonder if feeling nothing is easier than feeling anything at all?
I used to think that if there were no thoughts in my head there would be no pain.

Having tried both Dark_Waltz. I can safely say: Stick to feeling things, feeling nothing is worse.

[michel]

Originally Posted by SnaleSpace

Hi Michel,

I'm interested to see where this goes, interesting ideas. I'd take you up on the "Normal person" thing, but I know we both pretty much agree there is no one "normalness" to be aspired to, and that this is a point of reference.

I disagree in that Joe Publis emotional states are equal on both sides of the coin. This is for 2 reasons.

1. I know many "normal" people, and they also experience more bad than good times. That is why all people cherish the good times when they come around, as they know they may have to wait for the next ones.

2. Emotional states cannot be limited to good or bad they are much too diverse for this.

I think experiencing emotions like you do (and likewise others on this forum ) is not necessarily 'bad' or 'undesirable' either. A normal person would never understand the strength required to continue despite ultimate mental adversity. Relative to this adverse mental state happiness is bliss, and as it is amped up above the normal happiness or joy, bliss becomes an apt desciption.

Anyway....

Snale

Having tried both Dark_Waltz. I can safely say: Stick to feeling things, feeling nothing is worse.

Oh, I agree with you totally; the 'graph' I drew was over simplistic, and just as a 'common ground idea' to discuss on. I still belive though that the peaks and troughs cancel each other out, over the lifetime.........but, as you say, there are so many components, so many variables. What I drew was a 'skeleton'

[ChrisP]

Originally Posted by michel

Oh, I agree with you totally; the 'graph' I drew was over simplistic, and just as a 'common ground idea' to discuss on. I still belive though that the peaks and troughs cancel each other out, over the lifetime.........but, as you say, there are so many components, so many variables. What I drew was a 'skeleton'

Yeah it's kindof a hard thing to draw without Photoshop .

Why do you conclude that the peaks and troughs are equal over a lifetime?

[YmirGF]

Frankly, I think you are more "normal" than you may suspect Michel. My slant on it all is we need the lows to appreciate the incredible highs. Counter-balance. Dunno bout the rest of you but I have a tendency to learn more from the bad experiences.

[Darkdale]

Manic-Depression is a hard thing to cope with. It's much worse than major depression in my opinion. But, I find that depression has it's advantages. For example, whenever something horrible happens, I am relatively unaffected, because I have build up an amazing tolerance for fighting depression... it works with sadness, anger and frustration too. However, whenever good things happen, I usually forget to enjoy them. I just kind of register it is a being good and move on. Get back to keeping myself steady and normal. It takes a lot of work, but it's worth it, I feel much better now than when I allowed my depression to keep me depressed. The only bad result is, I'm not very sympathetic. I simply don't have the emotional capital necessary to worry about other people's worries. I spend all that capital keeping myself level.

I do pray you'll be spared the lowest lows though, just the thought of it makes my stomach tighten.

[michel]

Originally Posted by Darkdale

Manic-Depression is a hard thing to cope with. It's much worse than major depression in my opinion. But, I find that depression has it's advantages. For example, whenever something horrible happens, I am relatively unaffected, because I have build up an amazing tolerance for fighting depression... it works with sadness, anger and frustration too. However, whenever good things happen, I usually forget to enjoy them. I just kind of register it is a being good and move on. Get back to keeping myself steady and normal. It takes a lot of work, but it's worth it, I feel much better now than when I allowed my depression to keep me depressed. The only bad result is, I'm not very sympathetic. I simply don't have the emotional capital necessary to worry about other people's worries. I spend all that capital keeping myself level.

I do pray you'll be spared the lowest lows though, just the thought of it makes my stomach tighten.

I'd never thought of it that way; but you are right.

I am, if allowed to be, happiest as a recluse, a hermit. Of course I can't be; I have a wife and two sons; both my sons will hopefully graduate next year, and I will attend their graduation ceremonies. And yet, here am I, six months before the event, feeling my stomach muscles wring with spasms, at the sheer thought of it.

My wife desperately wants to go on holiday; I'd love her to go, but she wants to go with me.............and here I am, hoping against hope that she won't find somewhere suitable. I want to be in my house, with my doctor at the end of the telephone (he has been looking after me for over 12 years). How can I tell them all I am terrified; what is more, as you say, Darkdale, if I do get to go on holiday, I will no doubt look as if I am enjoying myself. But from day one, I shall be focussing on the day when I come back, counting the hours.

Unlike you Darkdale, my escape is other's worries; I am good at listening to others, and I have a wealth of knowledge of every form of depression, psychosis, schitzophrenia.....I have been with people who have suffered from alsorts.

Now, I am a tee total, and it has suddenly occured to me it is Christmas; I am going to have to face socialization sober........what a dreadful thought.

Yes, you are right Darkdale; there is comfort whilst most depressed, because I know that feeling; it is like a comfortable glove. Hapiness is the transient prelude to a big downer, when the 'nice' stops.