The Great Global Warming Swindle? (Earth, mystic, doom, science)

[GeneCosta]

Global warming may be happening, but that isn't the issue at all. The changing of the earth's temperature is a few things that the current environmental movement completely ignores:
1. A completely natural phenomenon. The earth's temperature changes ALL the time. Civilization has adapted to the change, whether a rise or drop in temperature, and carried on. The world didn't end, and none of the catastrophic claims of the global warming movement are going to happen as a result of the natural climate cycle.
2. Not man-made. There is extremely little relationship between carbon dioxide and change in temperature. To day that global warming is caused by people is ignoring most, if not all, generally accepted climate science.
3. There really isn't anything we can do about it. The earth will do as it pleases, and I think it's the height of arrogance to claim we have some sort of control over the natural processes of the planets.
4. The whole idea is politically motivated. For me, that takes away a lot of it's reliability.

"Global warming may be happening..."

I just wanted to remark on YmirGF's post, which gives the impression that the scientists on the program discounted all aspects of GW.

Concerning your first three points, look at the link I provided.

I don't see where the common Green benefits from the issue of Global Warming. Of course there are (economic and political) profiteers on the Left; it's the case for most any issue, unfortunately. We have people associated with the "Right" doing the same thing -- do you honestly think the oil companies filling the politicians' and scientists' pockets aren't influencing the debate? What about the religious leaders who show themselves to be "never wrong?" You're smart, so I would assume not.

It's a matter of treading through the garbage on the "Left" and "Right" and finding the truth.

I'm glad to see a documentary that provides us with some dissenting scientists, but their findings are not immune to being questioned, and indeed the link I provided questions a lot of what is claimed.

I have my own concerns with GW. I'm afraid Greens will forget the other problems we are facing: Water shortage, rainforest depletion, GMOs.

[MaddLlama]

Originally Posted by GeneCosta

"Global warming may be happening..."

I just wanted to remark on YmirGF's post, which gives the impression that the scientists on the program discounted all aspects of GW.

Concerning your first three points, look at the link I provided.

I don't see where the common Green benefits from the issue of Global Warming. Of course there are (economic and political) profiteers on the Left; it's the case for most any issue, unfortunately -- do you honestly think the oil companies filling the politicians' and scientists' pockets aren't influencing the debate? What about the religious leaders who show themselves to be "never wrong?" You're smart, so I would assume not.

It's a matter of treading through the garbage on the "Left" and "Right" and finding the truth.

I'm glad to see a documentary that provides us with some dissenting scientists, but their findings are not immune to being questioned, and indeed the link I provided questions a lot of what is claimed.

My concern is that it looks as if the beginning of this whole thing is bad science - when you go into an investigation having already drawn a conclusion, that's not good science. A theory is different from a conclusion, and I don't think that all the evidence was considered before they threw this theory to the public.
You say their finding shouldn't be immune to questioning, and I don't disagree with you. However, I do think we should extend that non-immunity to the people who say it is happening. The idea that global warming catastrophe is so incredibly scientifically based that it is a fact that no one can question helps nobody.

In the 1970's, there were news reports extremely similar to what we see today on the earth's climate. The only difference is in the 70's people were made to be deathly afraid of a global cooling. What happened there? Did industry rise so much in 20 years that it forced the climate change to go in the opposite direction? Or, was there just little science and a lot of assumption to back it up?

[GeneCosta]

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

My concern is that it looks as if the beginning of this whole thing is bad science - when you go into an investigation having already drawn a conclusion, that's not good science. A theory is different from a conclusion, and I don't think that all the evidence was considered before they threw this theory to the public.
You say their finding shouldn't be immune to questioning, and I don't disagree with you. However, I do think we should extend that non-immunity to the people who say it is happening. The idea that global warming catastrophe is so incredibly scientifically based that it is a fact that no one can question helps nobody.

In the 1970's, there were news reports extremely similar to what we see today on the earth's climate. The only difference is in the 70's people were made to be deathly afraid of a global cooling. What happened there? Did industry rise so much in 20 years that it forced the climate change to go in the opposite direction? Or, was there just little science and a lot of assumption to back it up?

A 1970 report talked about "Global warming." Look up "1970 Study of Critical Environmental Problems."

[MaddLlama]

Originally Posted by GeneCosta

A 1970 report talked about "Global warming." Look up "1970 Study of Critical Environmental Problems."

Read this 1975 Newsweek article

[YmirGF]

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

Read this 1975 Newsweek article

Well, I for one, definitely remember the talks with friends about Global Cooling theories, lol. Otoh, I don't recall hearing much about Global warming, other than in historical terms, until much later.

[GeneCosta]

During the period between the 1940s-1970s, there was a drop in surface temperature. "Global Cooling" was premature, no one is arguing that. However, looking at the overall picture, you see that the temperatres have been increasing.

http://www.androidworld.com/Global_temps.gif

Using that same logic brought up in regard to GC, we can discredit skeptics since 7 years ago people said there was no evidence of GW at all.

[UnTheist]

Issues like this always tick me off. Let's just wait another 50 years without doing anything and see how it goes.

[YmirGF]

Originally Posted by GeneCosta

During the period between the 1940s-1970s, there was a drop in surface temperature. "Global Cooling" was premature, no one is arguing that. However, looking at the overall picture, you see that the temperatres have been increasing.

http://www.androidworld.com/Global_temps.gif

Using that same logic brought up in regard to GC, we can discredit skeptics since 7 years ago people said there was no evidence of GW at all.

As I believe MaddLlama pointed out Gene, no one is question that there is an increase in the temperature of the Earth. That is self-evident. I think the real disagreement is over what the true cause is. You say to look at the overall picture and I think I am saying, try looking at the really big picture. Likewise, I do not deny man has an impact on the whole enchelada however I suspect that "footprint" is much smaller than we have been led to believe. I guess the day I see folks parking their cars I might begin to believe they are really sincere about reducing their so-called "carbon footprints".