Gnosticism Q&A (Jesus, ritual, gospel, mystic, Buddhism)

[Halcyon]

This is an open invitation to anyone who wants to know anything about Gnosticism to post their question here, hopefully then Buttons*, Simon or myself will be able to answer those questions to your satisfaction (although it'll undoubtedly take some inter-gnostic discussion) - eventually i'd like to re-write this discussion thread into a "Gnosticism FAQ" that could be made a sticky thread at the top of the forum.

Yeah, so any questions concerning Gnostic belief ancient or modern; Gnostic opinion on other faiths; Gnostic leaders and evangelists; different Gnostic sects or Gnostic-like religions, or anything else that pops into your mind are all welcome.
Don't be shy about asking what you think might be silly or offensive questions - these are the core of any good FAQ.

[Katzpur]

Maybe you could begin by explaining what Gnosticism is in the first place. I know I'm very unclear on the subject. Is there a distinction between Gnosticism in general and Gnostic Christianity?

[lunamoth]

A Gnostic I converse with on another forum, and someone I have a great deal of respect for due to the depth of research he's done in Christian history, has said something to the effect that Gnostics know that the Gospels/Bible is a metaphorical myth, and while it points to "the truth" it was never meant to be taken literally. This is supposedly in contrast to orthodoxy, which about two centuries after Christ started to distinguish their mystery religion from others that coexisted by insisting that the Gospel story is literal historical truth.

Is this a POV you would agree with, or that is held by most Christian Gnostics?

[Buttons*]

i agree with that

Gnosticism in general, though, encompases many different writings from many different points of inspiration from mystics of that time. Concerning texts, there are Islamic Gnostics, Jewish Gnostics, Manchean Gnostics (i think...), Christian Gnostics... and then there are just Gnostics. It's just a preference on which texts you identify with mostly. If you feel that you identify with them all, you are probably just Gnostic.

....and if I'm wrong I'm sure Paul will correct me

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by Buttons*

i agree with that

Gnosticism in general, though, encompases many different writings from many different points of inspiration from mystics of that time. Concerning texts, there are Islamic Gnostics, Jewish Gnostics, Manchean Gnostics (i think...), Christian Gnostics... and then there are just Gnostics. It's just a preference on which texts you identify with mostly. If you feel that you identify with them all, you are probably just Gnostic.

....and if I'm wrong I'm sure Paul will correct me

No, that's what i would have said.

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Maybe you could begin by explaining what Gnosticism is in the first place. I know I'm very unclear on the subject. Is there a distinction between Gnosticism in general and Gnostic Christianity?

To expand on what Buttons* and lunamoth have already said;

Gnosticism is a very ancient form of spiritual understanding (it pre-dates Christianity at least). It appears to be able to spontaneously develop in any culture, like Ash said we see it in all three Abrahamic religions plus Taoism and Buddhism can be seen as eastern mirrors of western Gnostic thought.
We have ancient Gnostics from pre-Christian times called the Sethians and Barbelites - these transformed in the 1st century to become the Valentinians, the Basilideans and many others. Once they were suppressed, Orthodox Christianity became the dominant form of Chriatian faith.
In the middle ages Gnosticism spontaneously reappeared, seemingly without any connection to the ancient systems - these included the likes of the Bogomils and the more famous Cathars. These again were wiped out with violent suppression.

The problem with Gnosticism is that Gnostic religions tend to be extremely pacifist by nature. This means that, although they were often very popular and spread quickly and easily, they were also easily eradicated by more violent religions. This is why Gnosticism of any form did not survive to modern times.

Belief-wise Gnosticism is really quite simple;

• God is infinite and essentially unknowable to the limited human mind.
• The material world is not as real as the spirtual world, our spirit is trapped and blinded by the material. (See The Matrix for a good example of the "illusion of the world".)
• Through personal spiritual effort we can re-gain the knowledge of our place within God (gnosis) and free ourselves of material illusion.

The distinction between the general Gnosticism described above and Christian Gnosticism is only that Christian Gnosticism is Gnosticism understood from the Christian perspective, using Christian language, Christian personalities etc (although adherants like myself would argue that Jesus himself was Gnostic, and thus original Christianity was Gnostic).

The wiki article on Gnosticism has undergone a recent re-write and is an exeptional, if long, read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism

[michel]

I was interested to see where the word 'Gnostic' comes from;
c.1585, from L.L. gnosticus, from Late Gk. gnostikos, noun use of adj. gnostikos "knowing, able to discern," from gnostos "knowable," from gignoskein "to learn, to come to know" (see know). Applied to various early Christian sects that claimed direct personal knowledge beyond the Gospel or the Church hierarchy. The adj. meaning "relating to knowledge" (with lower-case g-) is from 1656. (from the etymology on line dictionary)
Really all the name seems to 'claim' is to have 'more knowledge than others'; I dare say there are plenty of members here who could 'wear that hat'.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

The distinction between the general Gnosticism described above and Christian Gnosticism is only that Christian Gnosticism is Gnosticism understood from the Christian perspective, using Christian language, Christian personalities etc (although adherants like myself would argue that Jesus himself was Gnostic, and thus original Christianity was Gnostic).

So do you accept (or know??) that Jesus was a historically real person?

Thank you for the replies.

luna

PS, I hope you don't mind but I am going to copy part of your reply to another forum (Comparative Religion) where my other online Gnostic friend posts.

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by michel

Really all the name seems to 'claim' is to have 'more knowledge than others'; I dare say there are plenty of members here who could 'wear that hat'.

Hmmm, that's a misunderstanding. Gnosis isn't knowledge in the common usage of the word - it is enlightenment.

Ancient heresiologists like Irenaeus made a similar error in assuming that Gnostics claimed knowledge of God, and that they were somehow elect and superior to other Christians. This is false.

In reality Gnosticism taught/teaches paths to finding Gnosis, not Gnosis itself as Gnosis cannot be expressed in words, its intuitive knowledge, ineffable.
Although some people may have claimed Gnosis, like some claim to be Buddhas, most Gnostics simply followed the path.

Originally Posted by lunamoth

So do you accept (or know??) that Jesus was a historically real person?

No-one knows. I personally believe he was an historic person, however his existance is not essential to my beliefs - its the teachings that really matter.

Ancient Gnostics debated his existance too, some believed he existed, others believed him to be a construct - a character which teachers used to express concepts and religious ideas. The faith embodied in a perfect individual.
I think Ashley believes this latter version, that Jesus was a fictional tool.

Of those who believed he existed, their views of his existance varied widely from a quite orthodox view, through docetism to adoptionism, plus variations on those themes. Personally my view is a variation of adoptionism.

Originally Posted by lunamoth

PS, I hope you don't mind but I am going to copy part of your reply to another forum (Comparative Religion) where my other online Gnostic friend posts.

No problem. Tell me what he says though.