Modern Gnosticism (Jesus, ritual, Earth, gospel, Buddhism)

[Buttons*]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Hello friends,

I've read the short overview here and I've followed a couple of the threads in this section, and I've read quite a few posts now by people claiming Gnosticism as their religion. Just recently I read a post by Halcyon I think that suggests that Gnosticism is growing again (perhaps because of the recent Gnostic Gospel discoveries??).

the discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library, and other texts, most certianly has something to do with this "revival" if you will.

Originally Posted by sister luna

However, I still have a hard time understanding exactly what mondern Gnosticism is, what it's beliefs are, what it's practices are, what in short defines it as a religion.

Well, truthfully, none of our beliefs or practices define us as a religion, except for the fact that we have faith in our beliefs. *smiles*

Gnosticism was a major "cult" movement of the first century after the "death of Yeshua." (take that as you please) They used to have ceremonies, but we do not really know what the ancients did. I personally do not do much except meditate.

I believe that through understanding, we are aware of the Gnosis that we've already aquired. This is not like knowledge in books, or understanding consepts.... it's an inner knowing, of the self, which is of the One. This explination may not clear much up, but it's all I got. *smiles*

Nowadays we do have a few Gnostic churches, but I have yet to visit one.

Originally Posted by sister luna

I'm not arguing that it is not--just trying to get a handle on how you view your religion, what if anything unifies you, and what summarizes your worldview.

*hugs* I know your questions and intents for those inquiries are honest. *smiles* There is nothing that unifies Gnostics except that we are mystic and are "searching" for Gnosis.

Our world view is peace, and understanding... although I dont always represent our worldview well...

...anything else?

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Buttons*

the discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library, and other texts, most certianly has something to do with this "revival" if you will.
Well, truthfully, none of our beliefs or practices define us as a religion, except for the fact that we have faith in our beliefs. *smiles*

Gnosticism was a major "cult" movement of the first century after the "death of Yeshua." (take that as you please) They used to have ceremonies, but we do not really know what the ancients did. I personally do not do much except meditate.

I believe that through understanding, we are aware of the Gnosis that we've already aquired. This is not like knowledge in books, or understanding consepts.... it's an inner knowing, of the self, which is of the One. This explination may not clear much up, but it's all I got. *smiles*

Nowadays we do have a few Gnostic churches, but I have yet to visit one.



*hugs* I know your questions and intents for those inquiries are honest. *smiles* There is nothing that unifies Gnostics except that we are mystic and are "searching" for Gnosis.

Our world view is peace, and understanding... although I dont always represent our worldview well...

...anything else?

Hiya Buttons, thank you for your replies. I would refer you to my post # 5 for some more questions, if you'd like to answer them. I've found on these fora that answering such questions really helps me dig a bit deeper into my own 'gnosis.'

Glad to hear your worldview is of peace and understanding. Choose your worldview, choose your world.

luna

[Buttons*]

Well, Before I answer these, I'd like to point out that this is a point where Hal and I differ a lot in our beliefs. He takes a more Christian flavor to his, whereas I'm more Taoist.

Originally Posted by lunamoth

I take it that you are a theist, and also that you belive that Christ was...Something.

I believe the story of Yeshua was an allegory. Christ is being anointed, so yes, Christ is something special. *smiles*

[quote] What does the Eucharist mean to you? I'd also ask more about the Bridal Chamber, but if it involves sexual acts I'd prefer you don't go into any details. I apologize if the answers to my questions are buried in other threads here, I have not read them all.[quote]
Eucharist doesn't mean much to me. The fact that Yeshua "died and rose again" is a model for ourselves, to die from the material world we live in and rise again to be with the One/Source.

Well, you should know, although I wont go into details, that Gnosticism is a very sexual religion. It teaches that man and women need to become one, not just in body, but in spirit. But, the act of sex was not as important as what it represented, the bonding and uniting of the male and female energies to be one, perfect. *smiles* (Hopefully that doesn't give you too much detail...)

Do you believe in the soul?

would you please define soul for me?
... If, perhaps, you mean the soul, spirit, and body... well, I think that people split themselves up in order to attempt to explain what they cannot on their own. What we are is what we are. I dont really believe that my "soul" will carry on after death, if that's what you mean.

That the body is evil?

No, but people are ignorant.

In the resurrection of the body?

Yeshua's body or mine?

~Yeshua: not literal one
~mine: not really

Is God to you One, Multiple, Pantheistic, Panentheistic?

As I've stated before, people split things up in order to understand characterisitics of the One. There is only One source/light/love. This is our "god." Other gods like Sophia are allegorical for our own path to the One. (imo)

What role does the Holy Spirit play, if any? (Not trying to say you believe in the Trinity, but since I do I am interested in how you view these things--please don't bash the Trinity when you answer, I accept that you believe differently).

Me being a former Episcopalian, i could never bash the Trinity. I love your religion very much. *hugs*

I cant remember if Barbelo or Sophia is our holy spirit, but I'm gonna go with Sophia. *smiles* It literally means wisdom. It plays a role in our lives insomuch as an allegory for the mind. (heart/mind)

Paul should have something different here

What happens when you achieve re-union with God while on earch (how does this manifest in your life?). Do you believe in an afterlife?

You become "perfect" like Seth, or Yeshua. (supposedly)

Ish, but not a heaven or hell setting.

[Buttons*]

Originally Posted by sister luna

In achieving gnosis what is the role of God and what is your role?

We're just trying to go home. *smiles* Trying to understand ourselves, and go back to the One perfect understanding.

I take it from other comments I've heard that when you achieve it you just know, but is this a transient experience or are you permanently changed by it?

It should be a process. There are "realms" you may ascend through. Not to mention, (if you'll read Mary's gospel) there are things the "soul" must overcome. Once one can overcome these things, find gnosis/ultimate love/peace/understanding this is not of this world, they should, in theory, just be as people should be. *smiles*

Do you worship God, and if so how?

I don't worship anything.

OK, I view orthodox Christianity is basically summed up by Christ being the light and the truth and the way, and Christ is God Who is Love. Is this different for Gnostics?

Since Paul was the one who asked this question, I'll let him take care of it

Oh well, I don't know about the rest of us being on the path to destruction. I see God as a God of Love and when we love we participate in Him. Thank you again for the information.

lunamoth

I, personally, see that people have destoroyed a lot, because we have forgotten what we are, we are ignorant. Ignorance/fear is the root of the problem.

My "info" is mostly just how I see things. This does not make it right.

Hopefully this helps. *smiles*

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Buttons*

Well, Before I answer these, I'd like to point out that this is a point where Hal and I differ a lot in our beliefs. He takes a more Christian flavor to his, whereas I'm more Taoist.

Sounds quite reasonable. From what Hal said I expected as much.

I believe the story of Yeshua was an allegory. Christ is being anointed, so yes, Christ is something special. *smiles*

So, could I summarize this to mean that you think that the reference to becoming annointed is what is important about Christ, and that you will become like Christ? And although He was an allegory/archtype? you of course are real. So Christ is the ideal. This sounds familiar to the way another self-identified Christian Gnostic (at another forum) put it.

Eucharist doesn't mean much to me. The fact that Yeshua "died and rose again" is a model for ourselves, to die from the material world we live in and rise again to be with the One/Source.

OK. I think many of the world religions teach this idea in one form or another.

Well, you should know, although I wont go into details, that Gnosticism is a very sexual religion. It teaches that man and women need to become one, not just in body, but in spirit. But, the act of sex was not as important as what it represented, the bonding and uniting of the male and female energies to be one, perfect. *smiles* (Hopefully that doesn't give you too much detail...)

Oh, that was fine. Just did not need all the positions and what not... Kind of what I figured actually. Must say that while I find sex to be a sacred act within marriage, I think it would be rather weird in *ahem* communal settings. Haha! Guess I really am a prude.

would you please define soul for me?

Hmmm, well as a Christian I think that our soul is comprised of both our body and our spiritual nature. I don't think of the spirit or soul as housed within our body, but it is the part of us that knows and responds to God, the part that relates to the Holy Spirit. I don't think it is light or energy except in a metaphorical sense as I believe it is 'more than' what our material universe is. Having said that, I think that to be 'expressed' the soul needs some kind of body, just as light is only manifest when it is reflected off an object.

... If, perhaps, you mean the soul, spirit, and body... well, I think that people split themselves up in order to attempt to explain what they cannot on their own. What we are is what we are. I dont really believe that my "soul" will carry on after death, if that's what you mean.

I'm confused putting this together with what you say below. Do you believe there is some part of you that exists after your earthly body dies?

No, but people are ignorant.

I guess you mean that we mostly have not achieved gnosis, so we are not perfect and continue to go around hurting each other and the world?

Yeshua's body or mine?

Both. In Christianity the two events are connected.

~Yeshua: not literal one
~mine: not really

As I've stated before, people split things up in order to understand characterisitics of the One. There is only One source/light/love. This is our "god." Other gods like Sophia are allegorical for our own path to the One. (imo) OK, thank you.


Me being a former Episcopalian, i could never bash the Trinity. I love your religion very much. *hugs* Thank you!

I cant remember if Barbelo or Sophia is our holy spirit, but I'm gonna go with Sophia. *smiles* It literally means wisdom. It plays a role in our lives insomuch as an allegory for the mind. (heart/mind)
OK, so I'm getting that you think the whole concept of God etc. is just a story that one can use to guide their life. Not criticizing, just checking to see if I understand. Would it be correct to conclude that you do not believe in anything More than can be observed/measured/experienced in our physcial universe? There is nothing Super-natural?

Paul should have something different here Not getting you on this.

You become "perfect" like Seth, or Yeshua. (supposedly) So it's an ideal that you try to live up to?

Ish, but not a heaven or hell setting. I'm sorry but I don't understand your meaning here.

Thank you for all your answers; hope to continue the conversation, if you wish.

luna

[Buttons*]

For the most part, you've summarized things perfectly! *smiles* I'll copy what needs clarification, and work from there, is that alright?

Originally Posted by lunamoth

I believe the story of Yeshua was an allegory. Christ is being anointed, so yes, Christ is something special. *smiles*

So, could I summarize this to mean that you think that the reference to becoming annointed is what is important about Christ, and that you will become like Christ? And although He was an allegory/archtype? you of course are real. So Christ is the ideal. This sounds familiar to the way another self-identified Christian Gnostic (at another forum) put it.

yep

Haha! Guess I really am a prude.

well if you're a prude, I'm the ice queen. I havent even been touched by a guy. Then again, you're comparing neo Gnostics with ancients. *shrugs*

would you please define soul for me?

Hmmm, well as a Christian I think that our soul is comprised of both our body and our spiritual nature. I don't think of the spirit or soul as housed within our body, but it is the part of us that knows and responds to God, the part that relates to the Holy Spirit. I don't think it is light or energy except in a metaphorical sense as I believe it is 'more than' what our material universe is. Having said that, I think that to be 'expressed' the soul needs some kind of body, just as light is only manifest when it is reflected off an object.

*nods* I can see where you're coming from.

... If, perhaps, you mean the soul, spirit, and body... well, I think that people split themselves up in order to attempt to explain what they cannot on their own. What we are is what we are. I dont really believe that my "soul" will carry on after death, if that's what you mean.

I'm confused putting this together with what you say below. Do you believe there is some part of you that exists after your earthly body dies?

I'll explain in a bit, it'll be in green.

No, but people are ignorant.

I guess you mean that we mostly have not achieved gnosis, so we are not perfect and continue to go around hurting each other and the world?

*nods* Not "achieved" just understood.

I cant remember if Barbelo or Sophia is our holy spirit, but I'm gonna go with Sophia. *smiles* It literally means wisdom. It plays a role in our lives insomuch as an allegory for the mind. (heart/mind)
OK, so I'm getting that you think the whole concept of God etc. is just a story that one can use to guide their life. Not criticizing, just checking to see if I understand. Would it be correct to conclude that you do not believe in anything More than can be observed/measured/experienced in our physcial universe? There is nothing Super-natural?

Halcyon will say otherwise, but this is correct from my perspective.

Paul should have something different here Not getting you on this.

paul = Halcyon *smiles*

You become "perfect" like Seth, or Yeshua. (supposedly) So it's an ideal that you try to live up to?

no, you just become that way.

Ish, but not a heaven or hell setting. I'm sorry but I don't understand your meaning here.

I know, its very confusing, but I believe that because I have/do exist in this point in time, that after i'm gone, i will have always existed once, and "live after death".... its VERY confusing, but it works for me, if you dont understand its not because you're dull, it's cause im strange!

Thank you for all your answers; hope to continue the conversation, if you wish.

luna

of course! *smiles*

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Thank you for taking time to reply.

No, problem. Thank you for taking an interest.

Originally Posted by lunamoth

I take it that you are a theist, and also that you belive that Christ was...Something. What does the Eucharist mean to you? I'd also ask more about the Bridal Chamber, but if it involves sexual acts I'd prefer you don't go into any details. I apologize if the answers to my questions are buried in other threads here, I have not read them all.

Yes we are theists, but i guess not in the conventional sense.

I personally believe that a Christ is what someone becomes when they are annointed by God, they become one with God, but also retain their individual body and their mind is still attached to their physical brain. Thus they are still an individual human.
After death the Christ is fully of God and is more akin to an Aeon, its no longer a true individual.

The Eucharist - glad you asked, i was thinking about this today on the bus.
For me, its meaning is two-fold. First it is a literal reminder of Jesus "Do this in rememberance of me" it helps me keep my mind focussed on my teacher and not forget whose wisdom i am following. I don't go to a church, i do Eucharist myself, several times a day normally, when i eat bread or drink something (anything, not only wine ).
Secondly it reminds me that our bodies, and the body of Jesus, are of the same substance as the bread and the wine. The bread and wine are literally Jesus's body because there is really no distinction between the our bodies and the world around us.

We don't know what they did in the Bridal Chamber ritual. Personally i don't think it was sexual, i think it was a marrying of different aspects of the self.

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Do you believe in the soul? That the body is evil? In the resurrection of the body?

I believe the soul is the personality, the temporary and mortal aspect of what makes us unique individuals. I believe it dies with the body, but that the spirit lives on.
I don't believe that the body is evil, but like Ash said, i think it is a source of confining ignorance.

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Is God to you One, Multiple, Pantheistic, Panentheistic?

I called it trans-panentheistic in another thread. I believe God is literally everything, but also so much more. In one of our texts God is described as being greater than infinite, but it then says that the word greater is not even adequate.

Originally Posted by lunamoth

What role does the Holy Spirit play, if any? (Not trying to say you believe in the Trinity, but since I do I am interested in how you view these things--please don't bash the Trinity when you answer, I accept that you believe differently).

Yeah, i forget whether it is Barbelo of Sophia that was named as the Holy Spirit, not that it really matters, they're all aspects of God. I believe it is the active part of God, thats which interacts with us in the most direct way. For example, i believe that the Holy Spirit delivers visions and gives the Christ the power to perform miracles on Earth etc.

Originally Posted by lunamoth

What happens when you achieve re-union with God while on earch (how does this manifest in your life?). Do you believe in an afterlife?

You become a Christ, like Jesus did, after you achieve full Gnosis.
It manifests mainly in your mind, but theoretically a Christ should be able to do anything they want, its like the physical laws of this universe have been broken down for them - they see far beyond them.

The afterlife is a difficult subject, that none of us have any real knowledge of. I personally believe that our lives as we know them stop at death. If anything survives it would be as a part of God, a living memory of a sort. I don't dismiss the possibility of the divine spark within us from reincarnating either.

Originally Posted by lunamoth

In achieving gnosis what is the role of God and what is your role? I take it from other comments I've heard that when you achieve it you just know, but is this a transient experience or are you permanently changed by it?

Its pretty much all on you. The truth of God is plain to see, it is not hidden, our goal is to overcome the walls of self-made ignorance so that we may see the truth. At which point the mind fully opens (this is what i mean by being annointed by God) to the ultimate truth.
I believe Gnosis is probably acquired in little steps, little glimpses now and then until we receive final Gnosis and are transformed into Christs.

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Do you worship God, and if so how?

No. God doesn't need or want worship in my opinion. The demiurge is the God that likes being worshipped. I don't worship Christ either, revere is a more accurate word, like you revere a good teacher.

Originally Posted by lunamoth

OK, I view orthodox Christianity is basically summed up by Christ being the light and the truth and the way, and Christ is God Who is Love. Is this different for Gnostics?

Not really, i view Jesus as the truth and the way, but it probably means something different to each of us i think. I also believe that God is love, that we should all love one another because we are all one in God. But i also believe God is the source of everything, including evil - but i don't think God is evil.

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Oh well, I don't know about the rest of us being on the path to destruction. I see God as a God of Love and when we love we participate in Him. Thank you again for the information.

I don't think you are on the path to destruction either luna, but i do think many people who blindly follow are on the path to destruction. You clearly think and wish to learn about other beliefs, you are not blindly following but do so because you feel it is right. So long as you love others as Jesus loved all people, you'll be fine.

Originally Posted by finalfrogo

1. Have you ever heard of the book A Course in Miracles? Does it have anything to do with gnosticism?
2. Halcyon, why do you identify yourself as "Gnostic Christian," instead of just "Gnostic"?
3. There seem to be many ideas from the Da Vinci Code associated with Gnosticism--the marriage of Christ, the bloodline of Christ, etc. I'm relatively sure that such an association (with Gnosticism) is false. Am I right?
4. Is Gnosticism generally considered an inclusive, exclusive, or pluralistic religion?

1. I haven't read it, but i just looked it up. It sounds interesting and good, but i can't comment on whether it has any Gnostic content. Have you read it? If you give us a flavour of its basic premise then i might be able to tell.

2. Ah, this is because Gnosticism is not a real religion - its a way of looking at things. There were (and probably still are) Gnostic Jews, Gnostic Muslims, Gnostic Pagans and several other religions with Gnostic groundings like Mandaenism and Manichaenism. I believe in Christ and his teachings, so i'm a Gnostic Christian.

3. Yes, it is false. There are no Gnostic teachings on the marital status of Jesus, and certainly no comments about any offspring. Personally i believe he was married to Mary Magdalene - i can't see any other reason for her being allowed to annoint his body with oils.

4. Gnosticism is by its very nature diverse. We believe in the right for anyone to believe whatever they like, so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. As long as they seek Gnosis, they are Gnostic in my eyes.

[Buttons*]

Luna, now do you see why I think Hal should just answer?