Discussion of the Secret Book of John (Jesus, Earth, gospel)

[Buttons*]

I dont know if anyone would be interested in this... but i'd like to start sort of a "bible study" about one of the Gnostic books that i've been really into lately.

Anyone else want to participate? We would discuss, disect, and really meditate on the book piece by peace, until maybe we had a little better understanding. I know that personal revelation is...well... personal, but I was thinking maybe if we threw some ideas round, we may get a new understanding, or perspective we hadnt thought of.

The story was that John had been confronted by someone while traveling with his brother James. John started to have doubts about his faith, and so he began to ask questions about what Yeshua was really trying to say. The earth shook and a 3 formed-spirit figure appeared to him. It said that it was the perfect being. (it continued to change forms...from old to young and everything inbetween)
(...does anyone else think of the trinity {in a purely allegorical sense of course} at this point?)
He asked it to explain things to him, and the spirit replied with what we're going to be looking at.

(also, i believe this will help my case in determining that Taoism and Gnosticism are extremely similar)

Here's the first bit:

The One

And I asked if I might understand this, and it said to me,

"The One is a soverign that has nothing over it. It is God and parent, father of all, the invisible one that is over all, that is incorruptable, that is pure light at which no eye can gaze."

Pretty self explanitory to me...

The One, IS. (was, will be, forever, always, never, undone... any of the opposites and balances you could imagine) In this way, i think it's like the Tao....(i keep getting off topic)

any thoughts?

[michel]

Count me in; it is something I have been wanting to get into, but I haven't known where to start. Yours sounds good, and I am reasonably sure there are two or three other members I can think of straight away who would be interested.

[evearael]

I'm afraid I know nothing of Gnosticism except bits and pieces gleamed here. Which books do you follow that are not cannonized by mainstream Christianity? I would love a chance to study more religious texts!

[Buttons*]

Originally Posted by evearael

I'm afraid I know nothing of Gnosticism except bits and pieces gleamed here. Which books do you follow that are not cannonized by mainstream Christianity? I would love a chance to study more religious texts!

anything out of the Nag Hammadi Library

if you're used to reading Christian stuff though, you could pick up The Gnostic Gospels of Jesus, by Mervin Meyer... it helps with the transition, and has fantastic footnotes.

[evearael]

Thanks! I'll pick those up as soon as the funds are available... though I'm not sure when that will be.

[Buttons*]

Originally Posted by evearael

Thanks! I'll pick those up as soon as the funds are available... though I'm not sure when that will be.

there are texts you could find online... but I hate online sources because sometimes they arent always factual... (yeah, i know, its a sin to hate wiki, but i do)

I'll be posting verses directly from the book because I find it better. That's just me though. If you do look online, find something, and have questions, you can ask Halcyon or me. We have good footnotes to refer to

[Halcyon]

I guess i'm in by default (and if i'm not then prepare for badger related wrath).

Originally Posted by Ye Olde Buttons*

The One, IS. (was, will be, forever, always, never, undone... any of the opposites and balances you could imagine) In this way, i think it's like the Tao....(i keep getting off topic)

I agree entirely. And if i may, i would like to cross-link to my favourite text, Allogenes ( ). This passage describes the One;

Thus it has no need of mind or life or anything, for it is greater than all in its ultimacy and incomprehensibility, in nonexistant reality. It is silence and stillness not to be limited by the unlimited.

It is not divinity or blessedness or perfection; rather, it is something unknowable. Not that it has this, but it is greater than blessedness and divinity and perfection. It is not perfect, but greater. It is not infinite or limited by another, but greater.

The One is greater than anything that we can imagine, to comprehend it we divide it into attributes of the divine mind eg. wisdom. This is because The One is too great to be understood in its complete and contradictory nature by our limited minds.
Thus we have Gnosis, an understanding that is deep and almost subconscious - it cannot be explained in words.

Blah, blah, blah......

That's enough from me i think

[Buttons*]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

I guess i'm in by default

yes, yes you are! *smiles*

Originally Posted by lord of badgers

I agree entirely. And if i may, i would like to cross-link to my favourite text, Allogenes ( ). This passage describes the One;

well, if it aids in the explination of John's secret gospel, then by all means. However, I want to try to keep this as organized and on-topic as possible. If it relates to the One, and you be sure to specify that is it not in John, go ahead! *smiles*

I'm going to try to go though it bit by bit. Either every other day, or weekly, i havent decided yet. Sometimes a page at a time, sometimes only a few words, if I find it necissary. If you have any suggestions on how to make it a little smoother, you may PM me about them, and i'll take it into consideration.

Originally Posted by dorkus

The One is greater than anything that we can imagine, to comprehend it we divide it into attributes of the divine mind eg. wisdom. This is because The One is too great to be understood in its complete and contradictory nature by our limited minds.
Thus we have Gnosis, an understanding that is deep and almost subconscious - it cannot be explained in words.

Blah, blah, blah......

That's enough from me i think

well, i think you're spot on... and there'll be many discussions that we'll have to repeat ourselves, but I think the more we focus on it, and start really think about what we're saying when we say it, we'll be better off. So, your input is very critical, Paulus. You have a better understanding than I do, especailly when it comes to the luminaries and allogens. *smiles*

[EnhancedSpirit]

Oh, me too, me too. Count me IN. I can't wait to see what Truths we unfold. And I like John, I think the Christians today would have been a much more loving and forgiving group if they had followed John instead of Peter and Paul. But that is just an opinionated comment.

Score!
Look what I found in regards to the 3 images. I KNEW THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS A WOMAN. Mother, that is, I have tried to explain the trinity as father, mother, son for a while now. It is reflected this way in all the other religions, I don't understand why Christians insist on seeing a patriarchal triune being. Any way here is the quote:

There was not a plurality before me, but there was a likeness with multiple forms in the light, and the likenesses appeared through each other, and the likeness had three forms.
He said to me, "John, John, why do you doubt, or why are you afraid? You are not unfamiliar with this image, are you? - that is, do not be timid! - I am the one who is with you (pl.) always. I am the Father, I am the Mother, I am the Son. I am the undefiled and incorruptible one. Now I have come to teach you what is and what was and what will come to pass, that you may know the things which are not revealed and those which are revealed, and to teach you concerning the unwavering race of the perfect Man. http://www.webcom.com/gnosis/naghamm/apocjn.html