Discussion of the Secret Book of John (Jesus, Earth, gospel)

[gnostic]

I think this should be included too, before your quote, Button, for even more complete picture of the ONE.

And I asked to know it, and he said to me, "The Monad is a monarchy with nothing above it. It is he who exists as God and Father of everything, the invisible One who is above everything, who exists as incorruption, which is in the pure light into which no eye can look.

"He is the invisible Spirit, of whom it is not right to think of him as a god, or something similar. For he is more than a god, since there is nothing above him, for no one lords it over him. For he does not exist in something inferior to him, since everything exists in him. For it is he who establishes himself. He is eternal, since he does not need anything. For he is total perfection. He did not lack anything, that he might be completed by it; rather he is always completely perfect in light. He is illimitable, since there is no one prior to him to set limits to him. He is unsearchable, since there exists no one prior to him to examine him. He is immeasurable, since there was no one prior to him to measure him. He is invisible, since no one saw him. He is eternal, since he exists eternally. He is ineffable, since no one was able to comprehend him to speak about him. He is unnameable, since there is no one prior to him to give him a name.

[Buttons*]

"He is immeasurable light, which is pure, holy (and) immaculate. He is ineffable, being perfect in incorruptibility. (He is) not in perfection, nor in blessedness, nor in divinity, but he is far superior.

Light is synonomous with the One. It is above physical light. Forget what you know of "light." It is a light that burns within. (and without ) It's above anything mentally fathomable, and certainly simple enough for a child to understand. It is the one, and so easy to recognize, and equally easy to miss.

Many of the ways to explain the One will be used over and over. It IS so complex, and so simple that if you dont understand it, or feel the words that you read, you should clear your mind. Forget about the physical. Just read it allegorically. Opposites, and not quite opposite! They are two halves of the same coin. Think (hopefully the taoists wont shoot me for this) of Yin and Yang. Not quite opposite, but balance.

It is THIS balance that the spirit-figure is trying to teach John. The three identities are all of one, like a purely allegorical trinity, are the three parts of a person. Male, female, child... (also) spirit, soul, body. Things come in three, to cover all aspects of a person. Everything parallels a person inside. (This also helps when thinking of others on a spiritual level... but that's another discussion...)

He is not corporeal nor is he incorporeal.

ChrisP says:
corporeal means "off the body/physical"
ChrisP says:
So it's in relation to this line : For he does not exist in something inferior to him, since everything exists in him.
ChrisP says:
So everything physical exists IN the source, but the source is also outside of the physical too...
... honestly, he said it better than I could have. It's a very important line to focus on, IMO....

He is neither large nor is he small. There is no way to say, 'What is his quantity?' or, 'What is his quality?', for no one can know him. He is not someone among (other) beings, rather he is far superior.

The One is immeasurable. There is no really great discription of the One that anyone could put into words, for if we could, it would not be the One. Words are of the physical and known. The one is unknown and sacred. Not to say that the One is completely hidden, but it IS hidden from the naked eye. Those who look for it will find it, but there is no "searching" involved. It's all around us, it IS us.... oh i could go on forever....
(get into it much Ashley?)

Not that he is (simply) superior, but his essence does not partake in the aeons nor in time. For he who partakes in an aeon was prepared beforehand. Time was not apportioned to him, since he does not receive anything from another, for it would be received on loan. For he who precedes someone does not lack, that he may receive from him. For rather, it is the latter that looks expectantly at him in his light.

The One is limitless. It is not held by time, or any bounds that humans have created for It. It is forever... AND never, its everything we cannot grasp, but it's within our grasp. It's above anything we can physically imagine.

... so that's part one....

[Buttons*]

Originally Posted by gnostic

I think this should be included too, before your quote, Button, for even more complete picture of the ONE.

I thought that Halcyon posted that part, which is why I didnt feel like posting it again... i wanted to try and go in order.... but this is getting a tad out of hand...

[gnostic]

It is interesting to note that John's description (actually it is Jesus' description) of the One or the Parent of Entirety is one that cannot be described nor measured.

He is invisible, and yet he is the source of pure light which come from him. He is neither "corporeal" nor "incorporeal", which is contradiction. So what is he then?
It is sort of like me using the name "gnostic", but religiously, I'm really "agnostic". Don't I just love paradox! Oops, I'm getting sidetracked again.

One thing novice of Gnosticism should realise about this One or the great invisible Spirit is that he is not the creator of this world - Earth. Earth was created by a demiurge, who goes by several names - Yaldabaoth, Samael (blind god), and another that I don't remember - and titles such as Chief Archon (or Chief Ruler), Creator, Demiurge, Prime Parent. This Yaldabaoth is really the Gnostic version of Satan.

I am probably getting ahead of myself by mentioning Yaldabaoth, but it must be pointed out that the One is not the creator that we know of in the OT Genesis.

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by button

There is no really great discription of the One that anyone could put into words, for if we could, it would not be the One. Words are of the physical and known. The one is unknown and sacred. Not to say that the One is completely hidden, but it IS hidden from the naked eye.

From what I can gathered, the Barbelo (Mother) and Autogenes (Son), the other two perfect aeons, whom the One created, are the only ones who can really see the One.

[ChrisP]

Originally Posted by gnostic

It is interesting to note that John's description (actually it is Jesus' description) of the One or the Parent of Entirety is one that cannot be described nor measured.

He is invisible, and yet he is the source of pure light which come from him. He is neither "corporeal" nor "incorporeal", which is contradiction. So what is he then?

It is the container and keeper of both. (sorry I refuse to give something without a body a gender )

One thing novice of Gnosticism should realise about this One or the great invisible Spirit is that he is not the creator of this world - Earth. Earth was created by a demiurge, who goes by several names - Yaldabaoth, Samael (blind god), and another that I don't remember - and titles such as Chief Archon (or Chief Ruler), Creator, Demiurge, Prime Parent. This Yaldabaoth is really the Gnostic version of Satan.
I am probably getting ahead of myself by mentioning Yaldabaoth, but it must be pointed out that the One is not the creator that we know of in the OT Genesis.

You might be ahead of yourself but you're behind us... sorry. That was discussed at the start of this thread and also in many previous threads in this same forum... try and keep up ay

What we're discussing here, is the nature of what Ash calls "the One", what I call "the Tao" and what Wiccans would call "The Source" (which is the nicest sounding if you ask me... stupid Wiccans and their nice-soundingness)... and we're discussing it through John's experiences in the Apocryphon of John, which can be found here : http://www.webcom.com/gnosis/naghamm/apocjn.html

[Buttons*]

For the perfection is majestic. He is pure, immeasurable mind. He is an aeon-giving aeon. He is life-giving life. He is a blessedness-giving blessed one. He is knowledge-giving knowledge. He is goodness-giving goodness. He is mercy and redemption-giving mercy. He is grace-giving grace, not because he possesses it, but because he gives the immeasurable, incomprehensible light.

I think NOW is a good time to remind everyone that He is to be translated as The One, or It. If there was a name for it, we would not know it because we aren't capable of putting it into words. (words that i'll use in describing the one will be bolded for convenience...)

What gives us compassion? A heart for good? The will to do right? - The Light. (yes, obviously your parents raising influenced that too ) But when it comes down to it, if you are doing right by what is driving you within, that is Love's doing. It is by the allowence of Light that we feel things like compassion, mercy, and forgiveness.

Think of the One as your conciousness, the wide spectrum of GOOD emotions you've ever felt. Those are inspired by the Light.

"How am I to speak with you about him? His aeon is indestructible, at rest and existing in silence, reposing (and) being prior to everything. For he is the head of all the aeons, and it is he who gives them strength in his goodness.

"what was before the beginning?" ... I'm sure you asked this as a child. (if you didnt, well, you're just strange!)

A straight answer, It simply was. Anyone else think that lumping it in with the One is just a cop-out for a real answer? Well, in some ways you'd be right. It's all about faith. Recognizing that the Light parallels with what is within (and without). Not just looking at it, really SEEING it.

... So what does this have to do with Aeons and the Beginning? Any opinions? *smiles*

For we know not the ineffable things, and we do not understand what is immeasurable, except for him who came forth from him, namely (from) the Father. For it is he who told it to us alone.

The father is the light. Father is not literal whatsoever. Any concept of father you have, drop it. It is simply another name for the masculine energy. (It would be useless without the Mother... but we'll get to that later on)

We have been given all the tools necissary to see beyond looking, and listen beyond hearing. These tools have been highlighted for us within Gnostic texts, and sayings of Yeshua. (He would say, "my father who is in heaven"... but that phrase could be an entirely new thread on its own... so lets ignore that for now. maybe next time we'll delve into Toma )

For it is he who looks at himself in his light which surrounds him, namely the spring of the water of life.

He = One = Light = Good = Love. (so many names, and not one of them accuratley describe it...*sigh*) Coming to the realizations that this is all allegorical and applicable to disecting parts of the body, soul, and spirit, (if you really absorb it) makes you thirst. You've been brought to "the spring of the water of life" Infinate information and thoughts.

And it is he who gives to all the aeons and in every way, (and) who gazes upon his image which he sees in the spring of the Spirit. It is he who puts his desire in his water-light which is in the spring of the pure light-water which surrounds him.

Light and water are both elements required for life. So you see that you need light and you need water. You also need those spiritually. The One is the water and light source. You thirst spiritually, and getting closer to the One, (through gnosis) would quench it.

We all desire it, and it is open for the aquiring.

... and thats all for now.... more maybe later in the week
I'll leave these open for discussion probably through wednesday. JUST these passages i've attempted (poorly) to explain. Please give them some thought, and ask some questions. Halcyon and i will do our best to try and explain it further. Thanks!

[gnostic]

His aeon is indestructible, at rest and existing in silence, reposing (and) being prior to everything.

Originally Posted by Button

Any opinions?

I'd guess that he like resting a lot. On holiday? A quiet fellow. A bit shy perhaps, so he's not really into gosssips and chatters. Perhaps, he needs a girlfriend, to loosen up. Oh, I forgot; he is already married to Mrs Two.

[Buttons*]

Originally Posted by gnostic

I'd guess that he is like resting a lot. On holiday? A quiet fellow. A bit shy perhaps, so he's not really into gosssips and chatters. Perhaps, he needs a girlfriend, to loosen up. Oh, I forgot; he is already married to Mrs Two.