Gnosticism (Jesus, reject, crucifixion, virtual, Buddhism)

[Buttons*]

Originally Posted by opensoul7

James the persian ,
Gnostics and Christians have the same similarity then , because "Early Christians "could not agree on Christ either.So musch so that it took 325 years after the death of Christ for Christianity as a singular unity of belief to form in Catholic church.And only then under the leadership of a Pagan ruler by the name of Constantine.They had to vote under the iron fist of a pagan to come together on what they "believed". That was called the council of Nicaea.The Cathars and at least old gnostic belief was that a personal relationship with God was all you needed , personal gnosis(knowledge).They were dualistic , they believed God gave life the soul or divine spark, but that rex mundi the god of destruction created the universe.It was because rex mundi had created all matter that anything of the flesh or material was evil.They had men and women preachers called Perfecti.One of the Criticisms of the Cathars was that there teaching and story changed from one person to the next , it was not universal like the Catholic church was in it's belief.But since Gnosis was the key to there belief of course it would be different because no two people have the same relationship or Gnosis of God.They were humble vegetarians (they did eat fish , but only because they believed that fish reproduced a-sexually) that went to the bonfires singing and dancing.They never raised their hand in defence of themselves.The locals (catholic mostly)respected them so much that they hide them defended them ans gave their lives for them.All the gnostics ever did was have a different view of christianity than the Catholic church so they were all killed men women and children.

...will you marry me?
that's completely true... how do you know so much about gnostics?

[opensoul7]

I love to read , and I have read a few books on gnosticism .I have a lot of respect for the Gnostics and share a number of gnostic beliefs.Lux

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by gnosis_777

Gnostics doesnt really have a church, and its more of an individual journey than anything. There are writings of Cathars and Valentinians which are helpful, but other than that, there isnt a real good example of "modern gnostics"... The term just means a Gnostic living now... i think Halcyon just made it up. I've never heard the term "modern gnostics"
Anyway, any modern belief of gnostics is based on ALL the gnostic texts that have been found. newer or older, all are studied in the search for gnosis.

... i think.... Check with Halcyon on that one...

Yeah, i did just make it up - so it only applies to me really - i can't speak for what Ashley or any other Gnostic believes or would like to call themselves.

I think Ashley answered your question rather well opensoul, we look to all the ancient texts (which there are a lot) for inspiration and help in finding Gnosis. But, at least i feel, we should also look to other religions e.g. Buddhism, Hinduism, Wicca, for knowledge as well. The ancients studied any and all sources of religious and mystical understanding.
There is no connection between those who call themselves Gnostic now, and those who did in ancient times. The only survivng ancient Gnostics are the Mandaeans. Gnostics living in modern times are only people who have discovered the Gnostic texts and can see the truth in them.

The Cathars are probably the most well known Gnostics, presumably because they have been studied and written about the most. But in reality they were only one small group among possibly hundreds of different (but not competing) groups of people who subscribed to Gnostic thought. Gnostics were, and are, not only Christian.

Hope that's been of some help.

[opensoul7]

Halcyon,
Yes that is of help thank you .I know in in the south of France the term cathar much like pagan is a term used to genralize a diverse anount of religious thought and belief.I have read about the Mandeans and am currently reading more.If memory serves me well they live in modern day southern Iraq , and believe that John the Baptist was a leader (it started before him I think) of their movement and that Jesus was a follower of the Baptist that was radical and broke off from their movement to start a new one.After the baptist was killed for Salome by Herod, their was a temporary leader until Simon Magus come from Alexandria .Simon and his history both through the church (biblically)and without historic record is a vey interesting person , but to interesting to get into now.The mandeans still baptize , and I believe have a mystery religion .A religion where you must be initiated and are only given spiritual information as you grow and are ready for it through ceremony or ritual.So do you read the dead sea scrolls and or the Nag Hammadi scrolls? Where do you find modern Gnostic books ? and what is their connedtion to the past , if at all? I also agree with you about looking in all religions and places for intellectual Gnosis ,I believe the purest form of gnosis to be within , through your personal experience and relationship with God.

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by opensoul7

I believe the purest form of gnosis to be within , through your personal experience and relationship with God.

Well, there you go - you've summed up Gnosticism in one sentance.

There are no modern Gnostic books, only ancient once. I haven't read the dead sea scrolls, but the Nag Hammadi library is our primary source of texts. Along with other extant works such as the Pistis Sophia.

Nice to know that there are at least a few people out there who are interested in the real Gnosticism, rather than the invented heresy of the Church. I'm not sure i've said it yet opensoul, so welcome to the forums.

[Buttons*]

I know these questions werent addressed to me, but i feel like posting... so i shall!
~I've read the dead sea scrolls, but i dont study them as much as the Gnostic Bible (Nag Hammadi Library)
~I didnt realize there were modern gnostic books. However, once I visited the University of Notre Dame and in their book store they had a whole section dedicated to "gnostic" works. i picked up a book titled "gnostics in modernity" ... however it was WAY too complicated for me... and i'd need cliffs notes to have it make any sense at all... It had nothing to do with any of the Gods, though...
~I do look into other religions for truths in them... but for now I'm still trying to make it through the whole Nag Hammadi Library... *rolls eyes* Then I can have a better understanding of what I can gain through other beliefs... if that makes any sense...

[opensoul7]

Yes well to the winner goes the spoils, and since the Catholic won the one sided war against the cathars they spread rumors and demonized Gnostic belief to keep people away .To keep it from resurfacing.Fear and intimidation goes along way , but despite all of that they failed . From the souls of the murdered the truth is being revealed , about their history, lives ,and beliefs. I have read a good book about the dead sea scrolls called "The dead sea scroll deception" by Baigent, Lincoln , leigh.(I think the last name is spelled right)The book is about the Catholic churchs strangle hold on the dead sea scrolls for so long , and the propaganda they spread to keep people away and not interested in them. A little dry , but very informative.I also have a book called the "Gnostic gospels" by elaine Pagels but I have not read it yet , although it is a very recomended book. I have other books as well almost all of wich are still packed up at the moment I will get back to you later on that.I have read about the Pistis Sophia , small parts of both the nag Hammadi and dead sea scrolls. Speaking of Sophia have you ever read about PHI the divine proportion 1.618 to 1 ? I wrote a thread on it but no one has responded.

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by opensoul7

Yes well to the winner goes the spoils, and since the Catholic won the one sided war against the cathars they spread rumors and demonized Gnostic belief to keep people away .To keep it from resurfacing.Fear and intimidation goes along way , but despite all of that they failed . From the souls of the murdered the truth is being revealed , about their history, lives ,and beliefs. I have read a good book about the dead sea scrolls called "The dead sea scroll deception" by Baigent, Lincoln , leigh.(I think the last name is spelled right)The book is about the Catholic churchs strangle hold on the dead sea scrolls for so long , and the propaganda they spread to keep people away and not interested in them. A little dry , but very informative.I also have a book called the "Gnostic gospels" by elaine Pagels but I have not read it yet , although it is a very recomended book. I have other books as well almost all of wich are still packed up at the moment I will get back to you later on that.I have read about the Pistis Sophia , small parts of both the nag Hammadi and dead sea scrolls. Speaking of Sophia have you ever read about PHI the divine proportion 1.618 to 1 ? I wrote a thread on it but no one has responded.

No i haven't. How old was your thread, could you link to it here?

[opensoul7]

I still use smoke signals as a form of communication , so as embarassing as this is ....I don't know how to link yet . hahahahahahahah get it out why you can, enjoy that one on me. In the computer world I am cro-magnon at best.My fiancee' will learn me right eventually!Any who divine proportion is a ratio 1.618 to 1 . It is found in everything from the human anatomy to nautilus shells, pine cones, blades of grass , everything! It was used in the builing of the pyramids , the Parthenon, and other temples , it is found in motzarts & beethovens music. on , and on , and on.you get the idea .Anyway , since it was found everywhere in nature the ancients believed it was the building block of God , because God had used it in everything ! it is called PHI , soPHIa are you seeing the connection ? so Temple comes from temper , and that was what the ancients were doing using PHI to create or temper a material place with the spirit of God through Gods proportion. To create a building like a musical instrument , that truly resonates with Gods spirit by using Gods divine proportion, so to temper both the material and channel the spirit of God in one place.I am not saying that as well as I can but the idea is getting across I hope.

[Buttons*]

Originally Posted by opensoul7

I still use smoke signals as a form of communication , so as embarassing as this is ....I don't know how to link yet . hahahahahahahah get it out why you can, enjoy that one on me. In the computer world I am cro-magnon at best.My fiancee' will learn me right eventually!Any who divine proportion is a ratio 1.618 to 1 . It is found in everything from the human anatomy to nautilus shells, pine cones, blades of grass , everything! It was used in the builing of the pyramids , the Parthenon, and other temples , it is found in motzarts & beethovens music. on , and on , and on.you get the idea .Anyway , since it was found everywhere in nature the ancients believed it was the building block of God , because God had used it in everything ! it is called PHI , soPHIa are you seeing the connection ? so Temple comes from temper , and that was what the ancients were doing using PHI to create or temper a material place with the spirit of God through Gods proportion. To create a building like a musical instrument , that truly resonates with Gods spirit by using Gods divine proportion, so to temper both the material and channel the spirit of God in one place.I am not saying that as well as I can but the idea is getting across I hope.

i think i remember that thread although i didnt know how to respond to it. I understand what you're talking about now though... that's terribly interesting! I like that theory