Should we fear Islam?

[Gharib]

Originally Posted by Autodidact

You're saying my statements are false? In that case it should be easy for you to show us that. We're waiting for your evidence.

You have not refuted one, not a single one, of my allegations. Yet you have the temerity to characterize them as "wrong?" What's "wrong" with them?

liar liar pants on fire, see what i mean about you. in an earlier post you said

Originally Posted by Autodidact

O.K. We've posted source after story after report of women being raped and then imprisoned, flogged or stoned for having the temerity to report it. Obviously, if women are afraid to report being raped, then the rapists get away with rape with impunity. What a surprise! A male-dominated religion that facilitates rape. No coincidence there.

and i replied with the following:

Does Islam require four witnesses for rape?

yet here you are saying:

"You have not refuted one, not a single one, of my allegations. Yet you have the temerity to characterize them as "wrong?" What's "wrong" with them"

thanks once more Autodidact.

[Gharib]

Originally Posted by Mestemia

I disagree.

You are flat out wrong.
I know two groups of Muslims here in my area who have been disagreeing for at least the last three years.

Care to try again?

yeah so?

Yet no one has bothered to actually post evidence that Autodidact is wrong...

please stop OK, your ignorance is showing, you didn't even bother to read what i said. so you too are a liar.

[Mr Spinkles]

Originally Posted by Fatihah

Response: The extremists have no control over any land, nor are they getting close in doing so. So they are no threat.

What you should worry about is the media which portrays islam in a
negative manner. For they are the reason why the extremists are gaining so much ground to begin with, due to their attacks on islam. Such propaganda can convince the muslims who are peaceful to perhaps reconsider, because their religion is constantly under attack.

I have to admit those are good points. I can't give frubals because I am out of them currently.

PS Delete your private messages so I can PM you.

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by eselam

yeah so?

You are wrong.
I guess that means you are not a true Muslim, right?
Which would mean anything you have to say about Islam is nul and void, right?
Or would you like to start back peddling now?

Originally Posted by eselam

please stop OK, your ignorance is showing, you didn't even bother to read what i said. so you too are a liar.

How does your being wrong make me a liar?

[Autodidact]

Originally Posted by .lava

that's a good point. how do you expect me to show she is wrong? she is talking about injustice in some Muslim nations and i agree with that. but she blames Islam for it though it's proven once in awhile it's not correct application of Sharia. for instance, maybe last week, it was clearly proven by verses of Qur'an that stoning punishment for adulterer was against Islam. but still, she brings up the same issue over and over again

.

For the record, I don't disagree that all of these things are, or may be for all I know, "against Islam," that is, not authorized by the qur'an. I'm not arguing that. My point is that it doesn't make any difference what the True Islam says. The poor murdered gay man is just as dead, just as killed by his Muslim government purporting to act according to Islam, whether it's in accord with the qur'an or not. I'm not worried about True Islam, since it doesn't exist. I'm only worried about actual Islam as actually practiced by actual Muslims in the actual world. That one is dangerous.

If the remedy is to get actual Muslims to act in accord with True Islam, then there should be a worldwide movement to reform Islam and make it conform with True Islam. Is there?

[Autodidact]

Originally Posted by .lava

that's a good point. how do you expect me to show she is wrong? she is talking about injustice in some Muslim nations and i agree with that. but she blames Islam for it though it's proven once in awhile it's not correct application of Sharia. for instance, maybe last week, it was clearly proven by verses of Qur'an that stoning punishment for adulterer was against Islam. but still, she brings up the same issue over and over again

.

Because, since last week, an actual human being may be have been stoned for adultery. And that matters.

[Autodidact]

Originally Posted by eselam

refuting false statements is one thing, refuting willful ignorance is a complete different thing, i don't know how to combat willful ignorance.

What is it you think I'm "willfully ignorant" of?

Ignorance is one of the easiest thing to combat. All you need are facts. Do you have any?

[Autodidact]

Originally Posted by eselam

liar liar pants on fire, see what i mean about you. in an earlier post you said



and i replied with the following:

Does Islam require four witnesses for rape?

yet here you are saying:

"You have not refuted one, not a single one, of my allegations. Yet you have the temerity to characterize them as "wrong?" What's "wrong" with them"

thanks once more Autodidact.

You're not understanding me. I have never made any claim about what the qur'an says or what is actually Islamic. The only claims I have made are about what's actually happening in the actual world. Actual Muslims are stoning, flogging and jailing actual rape victims. If that is not true, then refute it. Show me that the reported instances of this happening are false.

Statements about what the qur'an says are irrelevant to my point.

[.lava]

Originally Posted by Autodidact

For the record, I don't disagree that all of these things are, or may be for all I know, "against Islam," that is, not authorized by the qur'an. I'm not arguing that.

well, i am. if there are 1.5 billion Muslims on Earth -from different cultures and different nations- they all have a few things in common. Qur'an for that matter is the core of Islam. so when you accuse Islam the religion, what you say touches me and every single Muslim too.

My point is that it doesn't make any difference what the True Islam says.

really? what do you think i am practicing? Qur'an is many things, it is also hand book of what Islam is. anyone who wants to learn what Islam is would read Qur'an first. besides, Muslims won't abandone Islam. if you want to see injustice end in Muslim nations, then you should care about what Islam really is because only Islam can help Muslims.

The poor murdered gay man is just as dead, just as killed by his Muslim government purporting to act according to Islam, whether it's in accord with the qur'an or not. I'm not worried about True Islam, since it doesn't exist. I'm only worried about actual Islam as actually practiced by actual Muslims in the actual world. That one is dangerous.

am i fictional? Islam that my master taught me is fictional? it is real, Autodidact. there are many dangers in this world. Islamic morals and teachings would make people save themselves from ignorance at certain degree. attacking Islam and trying to "save" us from being Muslims would only feed those whom you fear. i rather see Western stop correcting their stand by attacking Islam.

If the remedy is to get actual Muslims to act in accord with True Islam, then there should be a worldwide movement to reform Islam and make it conform with True Islam. Is there?

Islam does not need reform. people need to learn Qur'an. no Muslim can take responsibility of being a Muslim with dignity to be the right example, if he did not know what Islam is. Muslims unfortunately learn Islam from what other people say and do, just like you do. you may be the exact opposite of them but to me you are the same thing. what you think Islam is perfectly matches with what those whom you fight against think what Islam is. don't you find it little strange?

.

[.lava]

Originally Posted by Autodidact

Because, since last week, an actual human being may be have been stoned for adultery. And that matters.

so once is not enough and you reply the same post of mine twice?

what else can i do? this kind of stuff only kills my sleep. it is beyond my power. you know that, so why do you keep holding me and other Muslims responsible? whatever power do you have over American soldiers in Afghanistan? can you make them leave Muslim land? i am sorry, i am not asking this question to disturb you or distract you, so don't get me wrong. i find it similar and i don't even expect an answer

.