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  #221  
Old 10-13-2009, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Cheese View Post
nope I have explained it multiple ways

and offered to do it even further....

the fault lies in the simple fact it is beyond them...

Like asking a vegetarian to eat veal....

but its pointless really, the peanut gallery feels the need, so let them, they have yet to make any comment of actual substance, because they are simply unable... and that speaks volumes, far more than any "witty" comment that actually says nothing....
Let me get this straight...
You have attempted to explain your idea in multiple different ways and STILL no one but you understands it?
And then you think that the "default" reason you are the only one who understands is that it is above everyone else's comprehension level?

Talk about ego masturbation......
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  #222  
Old 10-13-2009, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
That's not specific enough for me, at least not most of the time. I can't count the number of times I've read some lame comment that "Christians believe [such and such," that does not pertain to my beliefs as a Christian AT ALL. "Christians believe everybody except them is going to Hell," is perhaps the best example of all. Well, I know for sure that at least 13.5 million LDS Christians believe that almost everybody will end up going to Heaven. I could give a bunch more examples, but that's the one that most irritates me.
Excellent point!
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  #223  
Old 10-13-2009, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by OmarKhayyam View Post
One cannot be Christian and not subscribe to the Nicene Creed. It has defined the religion for more than 1500 yrs and STILL does.
Of course one can. What would you call the people who believed Jesus Christ was their Savior and the Son of God, but who lived prior to 325 A.D.?


Quote:
And if you think not name the Christian divinity school that does NOT define the faith in those terms.
Christian divinity schools? Who cares what a bunch of people with Ph.D.s in theology have to say. If someone follows Jesus Christ and looks to Him to salvation, that person is a Christian. Jesus Christ himself specifically stated that it would be possible for men to recognize His disciples by the love they showed one for another. He said nothing about the Nicene Creed or about any divinity college.
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Last edited by Katzpur; 10-14-2009 at 07:19 AM..
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  #224  
Old 10-13-2009, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Cheese View Post
Jesus, although not seen as divine, is still a central feature of Christian atheism. Most Christian atheists think of Jesus as a wise and good man, accepting his moral teachings but rejecting the idea of his divinity.
Wouldn't one of His moral teachings be honesty? How could an atheist think of Jesus as either wise or good if He lied about being the Son of God or the means to salvation? To me, that would make Him a stupid man and a liar.
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Last edited by Katzpur; 10-13-2009 at 08:02 PM..
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  #225  
Old 10-13-2009, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Wouldn't one of His moral teachings be honesty? How could an atheist think of Jesus as either wise or good if He lied about being the Son of God or the means to salvation? To me, that would make Him a stupid man and a liar.
I don't think atheists who respect and admire the Jesus of the NT and live by his teachings would consider the "son of god" thing a blatant lie. We tend to view his parables as allegory and recognize there is a huge margin for error (misquotes, embellishments, amendments, etc) in a book written hundreds of years after the life of the main character. We recognize that the Jesus in the bible might not necessarily reflect the Jesus who actually walked the earth (if any.) Nevertheless, "love your neighbour" is a great idea, and a pretty revolutionary idea, even today. And the Sermon on the Mount certainly resonates with a humanist ethical frame of reference.

To be honest, I think atheists, agnostics, liberal Christians and people of other faiths are perhaps more free to relate to the teachings of Jesus on a personal level than those who feel compelled to believe in all the miracles and outrageous factual claims in the Bible are literally true. When people get too wrapped up in the ridiculous supernatural claims in the Bible, they tend to miss all the good stuff which could be applied to their daily lives with great effect if only they would open their eyes and see it; open their hearts and feel it.

Anyway, assuming the Jesus of the bible existed at all, I don't think there is anything particularly unusual or outrageous about claiming to be God incarnate, or his followers believing he was god incarnate. That sort of thing still goes on to this day.
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Last edited by Alceste; 10-13-2009 at 11:54 PM..
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  #226  
Old 10-14-2009, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Alceste View Post
Anyway, assuming the Jesus of the bible existed at all, I don't think there is anything particularly unusual or outrageous about claiming to be God incarnate, or his followers believing he was god incarnate. That sort of thing still goes on to this day.
Lol...
Actually what I would tell you...ahem...what I will tell you right now, this very moment, is that...
get ready for it...

...that it's often the followers and adorers who will put the personality on a pedestal and claim they are divine when the personalities often say nothing of the sort. In fact many saints or gurus will try to tell you to not worship them but to think of God but do you think the people listen? No, the words of the Master often go unheeded and everything he/she says is interpreted as the followers wish. I've seen this happen SO much. It's rediculous. One great example is Osho, who only spoke of love and peace etc. but his followers were crazy and started making assassination plots in his name. He was kicked out of America because of it, though he had nothing to do with it.
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  #227  
Old 10-14-2009, 12:05 AM
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Oh, you edited the bit about asking a Hindu..
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  #228  
Old 10-14-2009, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Madhuri View Post
Lol...
Actually what I would tell you...ahem...what I will tell you right now, this very moment, is that...
get ready for it...

...that it's often the followers and adorers who will put the personality on a pedestal and claim they are divine when the personalities often say nothing of the sort. In fact many saints or gurus will try to tell you to not worship them but to think of God but do you think the people listen? No, the words of the Master often go unheeded and everything he/she says is interpreted as the followers wish. I've seen this happen SO much. It's rediculous. One great example is Osho, who only spoke of love and peace etc. but his followers were crazy and started making assassination plots in his name. He was kicked out of America because of it, though he had nothing to do with it.
Yeah, that sounds about right - it's always the "followers" you have to watch out for IMO. They're the REALLY crazy ones... (Hmmm.... and who was it that wrote those gospels again...)

I used to have Osho Zen Tarot cards - they were great. They had a sense of humour.
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  #229  
Old 10-14-2009, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Madhuri View Post
Oh, you edited the bit about asking a Hindu..
Ha - yeah - I didn't want it to look like I was criticising Hinduism. I actually think it's great. If I'd been born in India I could have gone to live in a cave in a bedsheet and people would have begun to treat me as if I was holy, maybe start thinking I was the incarnation of some goddess if I gave them good advice. As it is I have to deal with spreadsheets instead of bedsheets. I can't even afford a cave in this stupid country.
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  #230  
Old 10-14-2009, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Alceste View Post
Ha - yeah - I didn't want it to look like I was criticising Hinduism. I actually think it's great. If I'd been born in India I could have gone to live in a cave in a bedsheet and people would have begun to treat me as if I was holy, maybe start thinking I was the incarnation of some goddess if I gave them good advice. As it is I have to deal with spreadsheets instead of bedsheets. I can't even afford a cave in this stupid country.
Rofl!! Made me laugh. Excellent point though- we need more affordable caves.
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