Religion does this, atheism is that

[atotalstranger]

Originally Posted by Mr Cheese

I do?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Mr Cheese

Its irrelivant if I do or not, atheism is a construct

I don't know what you mean by a "construct," but it is relevant in that atheism isn't a belief.

Originally Posted by Mr Cheese

It could non beleif in purple flying gofers.... it would still be the same thing

Indeed. It would still not be a belief.

Originally Posted by Mr Cheese

something which one who relies on intellect will never "get"

We all rely on intellect, whether you realize it or not - even those whose intellect is unreliable.

[Mr Cheese]

Originally Posted by Jeremiah

A = Person B = Belief in "God" C = Person with belief in "God"

A + B = C

A = A

what happend?

someone being silly?

monkey=goat

stoat =coat

coat+monkey = George

................

Now after we had first washed ourselves out of the fountain, and every man had taken a draught out of an entirely golden cup, we were once again to follow the Virgin into the hall, and there put on new apparel, which was all of cloth of gold gloriously set out with flowers. There was also given to everyone another Golden Fleece, which was set about with precious stones, and various workmanship according to the utmost skill of each artificer. On it hung a weighty medal of gold, on which were figured the sun and moon in opposition; but on the other side stood this saying,

“The light of the moon
shall be as the light of the sun,
and the light of the sun
shall be seven times lighter
than at present.”
But our former jewels were laid in a little casket, and committed to one of the waiters.

–Chemical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz

[Mr Cheese]

Originally Posted by atotalstranger

We all rely on intellect, whether you realize it or not - even those whose intellect is unreliable.

well thats what you believe, which is fine....

there is a difference between eating an apple and thinking about one however.

But again, all beyond you...never thee mind, my apologies for continuing.



None of the things which are comprehended by the senses or
contemplated by the intellect really subsist;
nothing except the transcendent and cause of all.

–St. Gregory of Nyssa


The sharpest boundary, however, is the one that separates the intermediary from the third and highest domain of the tribhuvana, which is termed svar and corresponds to our conception of the heavenly or celestial realm. The first two domains are comparatively similar, as in fact suggested by the words bhur and bhuvar, their respective Sanskrit designations; it is the transition from bhur to bhuvar that presents itself as a radical discontinuity, and in fact entails an inversion. So too the major break on the side of knowing is situated between the second and third of the corresponding degrees, as the analogies given in the Mandukya Upanishad in fact make it clear: nothing could indeed be more radical than the transition from the dream-state to sushupti, the state of dreamless sleep, which for this very reason is generally viewed as a state in which there is no knowing at all. It hardly needs saying that no amount of psychedelic drugs can take us across that border, and that even the techniques of yoga cannot effect that transition in the absence of initiatic grace. One might add that it is the failure to distinguish between the psychic an authentically celestial world that invalidates much of what contemporary authorities have to say concerning the so-called “spiritual life.”

–Wolfgang Smith (cosmology in the face of Gnosis, Sophia Vol. 12, no.2)

divine union « Prayers and Reflections


The paradox of the human condition is that nothing is so contrary to us as the requirement to transcend ourselves,
and nothing so fundamentally ourselves as the essence of this requirement, or perhaps, the fruit of this transcendence

–Frithjof Schuon, Echoes of Perennial wisdom

[atotalstranger]

Originally Posted by Mr Cheese

well thats what you believe, which is fine....

there is a difference between eating an apple and thinking about one however.

But again, all beyond you...never thee mind, my apologies for continuing.

I think you're confusing beyond with below. Regardless, I see you, once again, haven't addressed the fact that atheism isn't a belief, which was what started all this in the first place.

Less cutting and pasting of other people's thoughts and words, and more addressing of the full contents of the posts you're responding to will do wonders at not making you look vapid, evasive and dishonest. If that matters to you that is.

[Mr Cheese]

Originally Posted by atotalstranger

I think you're confusing beyond with below. Regardless, I see you, once again, haven't addressed the fact that atheism isn't a belief, which was what started all this in the first place.

Less cutting and pasting of other people's thoughts and words, and more addressing of the full contents of the posts you're responding to will do wonders at not making you look vapid, evasive and dishonest. If that matters to you that is.

The more you speak
The less you say

.................

One day a young man full of much wisdom and knowledge decided to share his wisdom with the world.

He went out and travelled the world and met many people.
Try as he might he couldnt find anyone willing to listen to his special revelations.
He knew in his heart of hearts that he knew the secret to God, the universe and everything.

Finally after 40 years of travelling, he was now an old man. He had found no one who would simply listen to his revelations.

Then he found a dog. A faithful brown dog. As the man spoke the dog stood to attention and listend.

The man knew, at last, he had an audience.

Decades of spiritual revelations and insight poured forth from the mans lips, the dog listend and stood staring as the man spoke.

Finally the man had finished and exclaimed “Do you understand my friend!!????”
The dog looked at him, sat down, began licking himself and fell asleep.
..............

All my own words....

Of course you will think I am being evasive, actually I am answerign everything you are askingin this and other posts
But I understand you are unable to see that, but that is where Gnosis begins and intellect ends... I would post another quote that may illuminate the way, but I fear it would be pointless. When we are stuck within the prison of intellect, it is a steadfast prison. Escape is difficult, and when it occurs, if ever...it will be a shocking release that will most likely shake you to the core....

My suggestion is to stop thinking about and just be about....

for what is within is without
and it is only when we look that we can see
It is only when we stop and listen
can we hear the caphony that is silence.

May you become released.... good luck to you.

[Jeremiah]

Originally Posted by Mr Cheese

what happend?

someone being silly?

monkey=goat

stoat =coat

coat+monkey = George

................

Now after we had first washed ourselves out of the fountain, and every man had taken a draught out of an entirely golden cup, we were once again to follow the Virgin into the hall, and there put on new apparel, which was all of cloth of gold gloriously set out with flowers. There was also given to everyone another Golden Fleece, which was set about with precious stones, and various workmanship according to the utmost skill of each artificer. On it hung a weighty medal of gold, on which were figured the sun and moon in opposition; but on the other side stood this saying,

“The light of the moon
shall be as the light of the sun,
and the light of the sun
shall be seven times lighter
than at present.”
But our former jewels were laid in a little casket, and committed to one of the waiters.

–Chemical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz

"what happend?

someone being silly?"

No, just laying it out very simplified for you. How about you actually try and refute my post.

[atotalstranger]

Originally Posted by Mr Cheese

The more you speak
The less you say

Simply admitting that atheism isn't a belief would suffice. I know that you're afraid that admitting this would somehow shatter the integrity of the self-image of this little character you've created for yourself, but it might be the first step on the road to becoming a real boy.

[Mr Cheese]

Originally Posted by Jeremiah

A = Person B = Belief in "God" C = Person with belief in "God"

A + B = C

A = A

A = Person
B = Belief in "God"
C = Person with belief in "God"

(person) A + B (Belief) = C (person with belief in God)

yeah and?

this really expresses nothing about anything....



ah, I see what you are saying...

the problem is A and B are not opposites.
That was my point about stamp collecting and not stamp collecting...

If we take sperm and egg we have a zygote

sperm + egg = zygote.

This zygote is made of sperm and egg. But is both and yet neither.

The problem with person and belief in God is that they still exist. The person exists, the belief exists. C is in effect a joining of A and B but is not a UNION of both that form a whole new entity, or C.

Thus to join good and evil (classic polarity labels) we don't form concenation (spelling nazi please) where G(good) + E(evil)= S(saint) which also equals GE.
To join G + E we reach a new entitity, lets call it T for transcendence. This T has lost the elements of G and E, it has been formed by combinign the two, until the two are lost, thus T is GE but it is also T. The key here being T.....

Thus as the Isa upanishad expresses, that that worship the manifest will fall into darkness

those that worship the unmanifest will fall into darkness.

It is only through union, where manifest and un-manifest become one... will you not fall into the darkness.

This is called a(n) (al)chemical wedding.

This is how in Buddhism, Gnosticism and other transcendent "religions"... one must go beyond dialectic opposites.

This is the point of polarity, to not have polarity.

This is why God creates both good and evil (see the Bible)

Wherever you go, there you are.

[Mr Cheese]

Originally Posted by atotalstranger

Simply admitting that atheism isn't a belief would suffice. I know that you're afraid that admitting this would somehow shatter the integrity of the self-image of this little character you've created for yourself, but it might be the first step on the road to becoming a real boy.

For you I shall wait above in the chariot of water,
on the moon, my resting place until the world is saved,
and always send down help to you.
Whoever strikes you, do not strike back`.
Whoever hates you, do not hate back.
Whoever envies you, do not envy again.
Whoever strikes you with anger, always return him with kindness,
and what you deplore in others do not yourself do.
No, you must endure insults and abuses
from those of higher station, from equals and those below,
because you who are devout and endure will not waver.
If someone throws flowers against an elephant,
these flowers cannot smash an elephant.
If raindrops fall on a stone,
these raindrops cannot melt the stone.
So insults and abuses can in no way make the devout
and of good endurance waver.


—attributed to Mani

[atotalstranger]

Rather meaningless since you already insulted me. But hey, just unthink it and it's like it never happened.