Stoning: Is it really all that bad?

[rojse]

Originally Posted by .lava

sometimes, rojse, crulty of people makes you think. a few weeks ago, in Eastern Turkey 3-4 men went to a wedding and killed 48 people, including 5 years old kids shot right in the forehead. those men who killed are relatives of victims. they are from the same Kurdish family. we have a national shock and people began to ask if we should have death penalty after all. there are terrible crimes. there are different types of murder. a university student crashes a man with her car and go to jail for murdering him, just like those guys who killed almost entire family. is this justice? then there is child porn. people make money out of it. people buy kids to use in movies. then there is terror. people go out shopping and all of a sudden a bomb goes off, leg and arms fly in the air, everyone around probably see a scene they would never forget, it leaves some people behind alive except some parts of their body. if these kind of people were killed by government, i do not think i would defend their rights to live. if a man thinks it is his right to take a life, then maybe it is governments right to take his life too. i am not saying this for accidently killings though.

I am quite thankful that I live in a society where I don't have to personally experience mass shootings and car-bombings. I find it difficult to comprehend how this would affect someone's stance on stoning or the death sentence.

Although I can understand the logical arguments put forward by both sides of a debate about the death penalty, the emotive arguments are something that I cannot comprehend without being in a comparable situation.

[darkendless]

Originally Posted by Azakel

No one should be stoned. I have had rock and stones thrown at me before(stupid kids when I was younger). I know how much it hurts, getting hit in the head is really bad there. So the way I see it Stoning someone to death would be torture.

Some of the vile scum on this planet deserve it. I'm in favour of torture and the death penalty. People need to fear the legal system, not laugh at it like they do in my country.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by rojse

Intent and outcome are different, though.

I see no evidence to suggest that entertainment is either the intent or the outcome.

[Jayhawker Soule]

BTW, though I'm not a big fan of the website, this article is more than a little interesting ...

[rojse]

Having considered both sides of the argument (without getting into the emotive aspect) I think as a form of punishment, stoning leaves a lot to be desired.

If you wish to merely punish someone, and not kill them, stoning would be imprecise at best - injuries could range from cuts and bruises, to losing an eye, while a hit to the temple can result in death. Having a single sentence with such a wide variety of possible outcomes for the victim is not a desirable trait for any justice system.

If you wish to kill someone (temporarily disregarding the ethics of the death penalty for this one post), a system such as lethal injection ensures that everyone receives the exact same form of punishment, administered in the same manner.

[rojse]

Originally Posted by darkendless

Some of the vile scum on this planet deserve it. I'm in favour of torture and the death penalty. People need to fear the legal system, not laugh at it like they do in my country.

How do you think this should be achieved, Darkendless? Tougher sentencing? The death penalty? Poorer conditions in prisons?

[darkendless]

Originally Posted by rojse

How do you think this should be achieved, Darkendless? Tougher sentencing? The death penalty? Poorer conditions in prisons?

All 3. People here on the street have a better chance of surviving in prison than in freedom. I'm strongly in favour of making people fear the brutality of prison. Sure, crime will continue, but people who commit them deserve a beating to knock the stupidity out of them.

[rojse]

Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule

BTW, though I'm not a big fan of the website, this article is more than a little interesting ...

Thanks for that, Jayhawker Soule. The more complex references to Islamic culture lost me, but there was some interesting stuff there.

Lapidation (stoning to death) in the Bible:

In John 8:7, the scribes and Pharisees bring a woman who had been caught in the very act of adultery. “Teacher this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. Now in the law, Moses commanded us to stone such. What do you say about her?” According to John, they did this to test him. What precisely was the test? Was it simply to see if Jesus would prescribe death for adultery? Or was it to see if he would cast the first stone?

At any rate, Jesus’ response resonates with later Islamic law. For in Islamic law, stoning requires a significant burden of proof. There have to be four separate confessions to a single judge by the accused and barring this, four reputable witnesses, that is, four men of blameless integrity who all must have directly seen the act themselves. Jesus applies precisely the same heavy burden of proof to the witnesses. He says, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again this is similar to the Muslim practice, since the witnesses cast the first stone. One by one, beginning with the eldest, says John, the Pharisees and scribes leave. Then when he is alone with the woman, he asks her where are the witnesses who condemned her for adultery. She says, there is no one, and he says, case dismissed for lack of evidence; don’t sin again. Interestingly, Jesus and Islamic jurists seem to be reading from a similar cultural script. The difference is that Jesus holds everyone to what American law now calls strict scrutiny of the law.

[Jayhawker Soule]

To be read with this in mind ...

[Shahzad]

Originally Posted by darkendless

Some of the vile scum on this planet deserve it. I'm in favour of torture and the death penalty. People need to fear the legal system, not laugh at it like they do in my country.

Oh? What forms of torturing are you in favour of?