Maybe I don't want to be a Christian any more (Jesus Christ, priest)

[Christian Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

Lol! Yes, just for a second lets pretend Jesus knew more about the meaning of Jesus' message than you do, CP, just for laughs.

I think the distinction needs to be made between those who love the Lord Jesus Christ and those who do not. One is an in-house debate between those who love the Lord Jesus Christ. The other discussion is between those who love the Lord Jesus Christ and those who do not. That way everything can be taken in it's proper context. I don't expect any unbeliever to see things through my lenses, because that's the nature of the truth of Christianity. If my postings do not eventually upset the unbeliever, I have bought into the lie of Christianity lite, or Christian humanism based on personal feelings rather than Biblical truth. The line in the sand is drawn by the hand of God, and not mine (IMO). Christianity lite tries to remove the line in the sand drawn by God. Christianity lite is ashamed of the gospel.

to those who love the Lord Jesus Christ:

Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel by the power of God, who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, and which now has been manifested through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, - Paul

The Righteous Shall Live by Faith

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. - Paul

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Christian Pilgrim

I think the distinction needs to be made between those who love the Lord Jesus Christ and those who do not. One is an in-house debate between those who love the Lord Jesus Christ. The other discussion is between those who love the Lord Jesus Christ and those who do not. That way everything can be taken in it's proper context. I don't expect any unbeliever to see things through my lenses, because that's the nature of the truth of Christianity.

Sooo...you're saying Jesus didn't believe in Jesus?

Otherwise I don't see what this has to do with the post you're (sort of) responding to.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by Christian Pilgrim

You Must Be Born Again (the bottom line)

Never mind. I shouldn't have held out hope that you would get what I was saying.

Originally Posted by Christian Pilgrim

For God So Loved the World

16 “For God so loved the world, [9] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.” - John 3

But here's the thing: I don't think that you're the light. If any Biblical metaphor fits here, I think I see the whitewashed tomb more than anything else in what you offer.

If the Bible's right, then I'll know the good tree when I see it bear good fruit. But so far, I've only seen bad fruit from you.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by Christian Pilgrim

I don't expect any unbeliever to see things through my lenses, because that's the nature of the truth of Christianity. If my postings do not eventually upset the unbeliever, I have bought into the lie of Christianity lite, or Christian humanism based on personal feelings rather than Biblical truth.

Ah... so that's what Jesus meant by "salt of the earth" and "light of the world." Hmm.

[J Bryson]

Let's see. I don't really believe that Jesus was the son of God any more than anyone else is. I don't believe in the mystical teachings that have been created out of his life. I'm skeptical regarding the miracles, and outright doubtful regarding the resurrection, except insofar as these tales have metaphorical meaning that I can take to heart. And yet I love his teachings, and what he was trying to do with the overwhelming legalism of the Jewish priesthood at the time. In that sense, I love him greatly. Do I count?

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Christian Pilgrim

. If my postings do not eventually upset the unbeliever, I have bought into the lie of Christianity lite, or Christian humanism based on personal feelings rather than Biblical truth. The line in the sand is drawn by the hand of God, and not mine (IMO). Christianity lite tries to remove the line in the sand drawn by God.

Btw, since you've taken it upon yourself to re-classify the Christianity of anyone who doesn't fit into your definition and refer to it by the spiffy new label "Christianity lite", would it be OK if I start refering to your brand as HypoChritianity?

I think that's a lot catchier than Egomania.

[J Bryson]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

Btw, since you've taken it upon yourself to re-classify the Christianity of anyone who doesn't fit into your definition and refer to it by the spiffy new label "Christianity lite", would it be OK if I start refering to your brand as HypoChritianity?

I think that's a lot catchier than Egomania.

Interestingly enough, the phrase "Christianity Lite" is not original with him. Historian and Christian Robert McElvaine uses the phrase to describe a very different sort of Christian from what CP is talking about. I read the book just recently, and it's worth a look.

GRAND THEFT JESUS: The Hijacking of Religion in America

[challupa]

Originally Posted by Christian Pilgrim

Look, I am only addressing those who profess to be Christians and no one else. What side of the line are they as professing Christans, and do they know the gospel of God's grace about His Son? How do these professing Christians understand this passage in light of their fellowship with unbelievers on this Forum site? They appear to be more hostile to what I post as compared to those who do not know God through Jesus Christ. We are called to love all others unconditonally. However, we are also commanded to speak th truth in love, because we love all others unconditionally. To minimize what is written in the Scriptures is not a good thing as a professing Christian. If a Christian is not trying to live by every word that come from the mouth of God, then why should you be a Christian.

Why does there need to be a line any way? Why is there a "us against them" mentality. What could possibly be wrong with humanism? You say love unconditionally then you heap tons of conditions on everyone! "We are commanded to speak the truth in love" is just a license to say whatever you want whether it is loving or hurtful, right or wrong, all in the name of "your interpretation" of "truth. That's pretty convenient if you are predestined to being a judgmental self righteous individual. I know why I am not a Christian, and I know why Christians are having trouble with the label. It's because of people who think they know the truth and are not humble enough to realize that they might have it wrong. Bottom line CP it's not our right to judge anyone else's relationship with God.

[challupa]

Originally Posted by Christian Pilgrim

Finally, I have your attention. I am not upset with unbelievers, for they do not claim to love the Lord Jesus Christ. I am upset with professing Christians who have lost their way, and purpose of being set apart for God. So as a Christian, why did God save you? What is your primary purpose as being Christian?

No one has the right to judge who has or who has not lost their way! That is up to your God.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Christian Pilgrim

I would say our primary purpose in life is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever, or to glorify God by enjoying Him forever.

More of the ego-driven arrogance of human beings to think ANYTHING we do could glorify God. God IS Glory. There is NOTHING we pitiful creatures could EVER do that would add to or subtract from God's glory!!.

But, let's go with your answer for a second. How do we love others, especially those who do not love the Lord Jesus Christ? How do we love God? What is the gospel of God's grace? What is the status of those who do not love the Lord Jesus Christ according to the Bible? How does God save sinners?

These questions indicate why you are not perceived as Christian in your understanding. No Christian would have to ask. Jesus's character and unconditional love was unambiguous even after scourging and crucifixion . . ."Forgive them they know not what they do." Unlike your precious Yahweh . . . he didn't SMITE anyone. The key part of your questions is the fact that it is God who calls and God who saves through the Holy Spirit brought to ALL humankind by Jesus's rebirth (resurrection) as Spirit.

I will agree that we are to love the Lord God with all of your heart, soul, strenght, and mind, and to love our neighbors as ourself. We are commanded to do this perfectly. Those two commandments are a summary of the 10 commandments and are commanded by God to believers and unbelievers alike... to obey all of the ten commandments perfectly, all the time. What happens when we break one of these laws, according to the Bible?

Our primitive ancestors had no concept of self-control. Like all animals when the Alpha is not there they do whatever they want. With Moses absent on the mountain . . . what happened. Obedience was the ONLY concept and fear was the ONLY motivator they understood. It took millennia to produce humans with the capability for self-control for love with no Alpha (God) physically present. But by the time of Jesus, the beginnings of this capability to control for love was "ripe for the harvest." Look how misunderstood it has still been throughout the second millennia. The veil of the OT has not been completely lifted even today for so many . . especially literalists.

Fear is the opposite of love. Love cannot exist where fear is. The only advantage to maintaining a fear motivation is to subvert Jesus's message and example and prevent the required development of "love of God and each other" . . . (seems more like the goal of an Angel of Light to me.)