Maybe I don't want to be a Christian any more (Jesus Christ, gospel)

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by Christian Pilgrim

I am thankful that you guys love and support katzpur. I like her as a person, even though she does not like me as a person. Our theological views divide us as professing Christians, which really cannot be reconciled in doctrine. We can still be friends. If I understand katzpur's theology driven by Mormon Christianity she sees non-believers to be children of God without personal faith in Jesus Christ. In my theology, everyone is born into this world as children of the devil, children of wrath, children of disobedience, and children of eternal destruction who are all headed for the wrath of God, coming Day of Judgment and eternal punishment for their continual sin and rebellion against God without faith in Jesus Christ. Therefore, my theology requires that all mankind are commanded to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for reconciliation with God, peace with God, and adoption into the family of God to escape the coming day of wrath and judgment.

Yes, it apparently requires a cruel, arbitrary God.

Originally Posted by Christian Pilgrim

In my worldview, there is no hope without personal faith and trust in the biblical Jesus Christ.

What a very limiting worldview. It rejects all the value and hope that I personally consider to be self-evident around us.

Originally Posted by Christian Pilgrim

I speak what I consider to be the truth in love. In my worldview, it would be the unkind and unloving act to not warn unbelievers for the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ which will result in the wrath of God and eternal punishment for those who are found united to Jesus Christ.

It would be an unkind and unloving act to trust in a supposedly almighty God to accomplish His stated goal?

Originally Posted by Christian Pilgrim

So, it's not that I do not love the unbeliever. I love the unbeliever by sharing the truth in love. Check out this verse recorded to be the teaching from Jesus Himself.

I fail to see how that passage is relevant.

[ChristineES]

In my theology, we are born in flesh. Flesh that is weak and open to hunger, thirst, and other things. Our flesh is what separates us from God because of the temptations we fall into. Jesus came to help men and women find their way back to God, despite that weakness. I don't think we are children of the devil, and that is what we differ on in doctrine.
I think that teaching people is better than telling them they are evil. I think compassion does more good that condemning. We can't give the message to people in hostility or they will react (more than likely) in hostility.

Following is also said by Jesus and it is taught with kindness and to nonbelievers in Him:

Mat 5:2 And He opened His mouth and taught them, saying,
Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit! For theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn! For they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek! For they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they who hunger and thirst after righteousness! For they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful! For they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart! For they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers! For they shall be called the sons of God.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are they who have been persecuted for righteousness sake! For theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are you when men shall revile you and persecute you, and shall say all kinds of evil against you falsely, for My sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for your reward in Heaven is great. For so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Mat 5:13 You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt loses its savor, with what shall it be salted? It is no longer good for anything, but to be thrown out and to be trodden underfoot by men.
Mat 5:14 You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
Mat 5:15 Nor do men light a lamp and put it under the grain-measure, but on a lampstand. And it gives light to all who are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father who is in Heaven.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Christian Pilgrim

Therefore, my theology requires that all mankind are commanded to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for reconciliation with God, peace with God, and adoption into the family of God to escape the coming day of wrath and judgment.

I can only repeat my earlier view . . . an all-loving, all-knowing, all-understanding God is incapable of the weaknesses of the human ego reflected in wrath, vengeance, jealousy or any of the other negative human emotions we are plagued by. There may indeed be negative consequences ahead . . . but they are no more a result of wrath and vengeance or punishment than my gravity illustration earlier . . . just our stupidity or failures.

[Christian Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by ChristineES

In my theology, we are born in flesh. Flesh that is weak and open to hunger, thirst, and other things. Our flesh is what separates us from God because of the temptations we fall into. Jesus came to help men and women find their way back to God, despite that weakness. I don't think we are children of the devil, and that is what we differ on in doctrine.
I think that teaching people is better than telling them they are evil. I think compassion does more good that condemning. We can't give the message to people in hostility or they will react (more than likely) in hostility.

Christine, it's very important to take all of Scripture to come to a conclusion on issues. All Scripture is God-Breathed. Did you know that Jesus called His disciples evil? A person must be born again to understand these things according to Jesus.

Ephesians 2
By Grace Through Faith

2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body [1] and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But [2] God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

2 Corinthians 4:6
For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 6:14
The Temple of the Living God
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8
for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light

1 John 3

3:1 See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears [1] we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.

4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's [2] seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

You Are of Your Father the Devil

39 They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham's children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, 40 but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. 41 You are doing the works your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.” 42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? 47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, [2] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— Rom 9

Mat 5:11 Blessed are you when men shall revile you and persecute you, and shall say all kinds of evil against you falsely, for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for your reward in Heaven is great. For so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

1 Thessalonians 5
The Day of the Lord

5:1 Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, [1] you have no need to have anything written to you. 2 For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. 5 For you are all children [2] of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness. 6 So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night. 8 But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him. 11 Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing.

[ChristineES]

Those are great verses, CP, and you truly have good knowledge of The Word, but can you explain to me what they mean to you?

Here is a verse from Matthew:
Mat 9:13 But go and learn what this is, I will have mercy and not sacrifice. For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
I interpret it this way: that Jesus came to the sinners, to teach them. And he said he has mercy and not sacrifice. Mercy is a kindness.

[DallasApple]

Im sort of perplexed.."we are born" as children of "the devil"?

I thought we were created in Gods image..that we are Gods children.And the devil was a fallen angel (not human like us)that was jealous of us and God cast him out of heaven.

Hmm..this is the first I have learned that we are all satans spawn clamoring our way back into Gods favor..

How awful..

Love

Dallas

[DallasApple]

In my theology, everyone is born into this world as children of the devil,

This is not my understanding in "my theology"..Thank God.

Love

Dallas

[DallasApple]

In my theology, everyone is born into this world as children of the devil,

How do you explain the Lords prayer then..the one Jesus taught us to say..

It starts with "our Father who art in Heaven"..

So if we are the "devils children" when we pray to "our Father" we are praying to Satan?

Love

Dallas

[DallasApple]

Christianity is about Jesus Christ and not about His people.

This one also throws me for a loop..WE the people are his BRIDE..WE the people are His church..It is certainly about us.He wouldnt have come here otherwise..there would have been no need..

Love

Dallas

[J Bryson]

Originally Posted by DallasApple

How do you explain the Lords prayer then..the one Jesus taught us to say..

It starts with "our Father who art in Heaven"..

So if we are the "devils children" when we pray to "our Father" we are praying to Satan?

Love

Dallas

Not only that, it assumes that the devil is in heaven.