Masturbation: To Sin or Not to Sin?

[Darkwater]

Did his son not *rend his robes* or was he cool with it?It *saved* him too perhaps?

I bet Judah spanked a few off before doing the dirty deed,just not the sort of thing he would do as a one off.....probably after it too,reliving the experience if it was nice.....or was it the unspeakable deed of extreme unpleasantness?

Good for Judah I say,good role model.

All is will & intent as long as everyone is consenting adult.

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

Originally Posted by S-word

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When Tamah the daughter of Levi, married into the tribe of Judah, she was subject to Judah the head of that tribe as was his youngest son Shelah who was sinnless in not taking Tamah to sire a child for his brother, without the explicit direction of his father Judah who, out of fear of losing his youngest son as he had his two older sons Er and Onan because of their connection to Tamah, did not give. And because Tamah, knowing that a woman is saved through bearing children, had played the part of a harlot in order to bear a child to the Tribe of Judah, her actions were concidered as righteous, because it is not what we do, by which we are Judged, but God, who sees into the hearts and minds of all, makes his judgments on why we do the thing that we do.

I wonder whether Judah would have been better off Mastubating, rather than going into his daughter in law, Tamah?

Very good. I agree as to Judah being her head at that time.

As far as Judah, he didn't know that it was her at the time and he did no wrong. Really her husband was dead for one and the other is that a man can sleep with whoever he wants whether he is married or not, unless the covenant that he made with his wife states otherwise, except those stated in Torah as far as family members or married women. Man can have as many wives as he so wishes as long as he does so scripturally. Oh yeah, and those seven nations I believe.

[S-word]

Originally Posted by Berachiah Ben Yisrael

Very good. I agree as to Judah being her head at that time.

Originally Posted by Berachiah Ben Yisrael

As far as Judah, he didn't know that it was her at the time and he did no wrong. Really her husband was dead for one and the other is that a man can sleep with whoever he wants whether he is married or not, unless the covenant that he made with his wife states otherwise, except those stated in Torah as far as family members or married women. Man can have as many wives as he so wishes as long as he does so scripturally. Oh yeah, and those seven nations I believe.

Surely a widowed woman is free to have sex with another man, even Jesus said it was alright to do so, and if Tamah was not concidered to be the betrothed of Shelah, but was an unmarried woman, why did Judah command that she be taken out and be burned to death, when he found out that she was pregnant?

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

Originally Posted by S-word

Surely a widowed woman is free to have sex with another man, even Jesus said it was alright to do so, and if Tamah was not concidered to be the betrothed of Shelah, but was an unmarried woman, why did Judah command that she be taken out and be burned to death, when he found out that she was pregnant?

She made a choice to stay for the seed of Shelah so Judah told her to go and stay at her Fathers house. She put herself in subjection to Judah. She was promised the seed of Shelah when he grew up by Judah. When she saw that he was grown and Judah did not keep his promise/contract/covenant then she was free. She just decided it would be his seed which made it a righteous choice in the eyes of Judah. It would have been hard to have proven Judah's broken promise as well as to have brought those kind of acqusations against him at that time. Who would have believed her or even confronted Judah over such other than Yah?

[S-word]

Originally Posted by Berachiah Ben Yisrael

She made a choice to stay for the seed of Shelah so Judah told her to go and stay at her Fathers house. She put herself in subjection to Judah. She was promised the seed of Shelah when he grew up by Judah. When she saw that he was grown and Judah did not keep his promise/contract/covenant then she was free. She just decided it would be his seed which made it a righteous choice in the eyes of Judah. It would have been hard to have proven Judah's broken promise as well as to have brought those kind of acqusations against him at that time. Who would have believed her or even confronted Judah over such other than Yah?

If you are not afraid to eat that which your mother body has deened as poisonous to your immortal soul, I would advise you to read the Last Testament of Judah to his children. This you will find in the 'Last Testament of the Patriarchs,' one of the books in the Psuedepigrapha of the Old Testament in English, by R. H. Charles. I'll just give you a short summerary here, which might be of some interest to you, for there you will find that Tamar was bethrothed to the sons (Plural) of Judah, in which sons, Judah had no delight.

Against his Father's wish, Judah (While full as a boot and drunk as a coot) took to wife a Canaanite woman by the name Bathshua, and she bore to Judah his three sons, Er, Onan and Shelah, none of whom succeeded Judah the ancestral father to the tribe of that name, which is descended from the two sons sired by Judah and born of Tamar: Parez, the successor to Judah, and Zerah the minor tribe of the scarlet thread, (Very, Very important). Judah chose Tamar as the wife for his son ER, and although I had said previously that she was the daughter of Levi, which no one picked up on, (It's hard to get a serious debate going in this forum) Tamar was in fact the daughter of a priest named Aram from Mesopotamia.

But Bashua did not want grand children by Tamar, as she was not a Canaanite and on the third night when Er had still not consumated the union, he was killed by an angel or so the story goes. Tamar was then given to Onan, but his mother Bathshua forbid that he sire a child to her, and after twelve months, when Judah found out, he commanded that his son Onan go into her, but he spilled his seed on the ground according to the command of his mother, and he died through wickness, and Judah wished to give Shelah to Tamar, but his mother did not permit it, because Tamar was not of the daughters of Canaan as she was. And while Judah was away, Bathshua went and took for Shelah a wife from Canaan; had not Judah sired the two sons to Tamah, he would have died childless, this he himself confesses to his descendants.

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

Originally Posted by S-word

If you are not afraid to eat that which your mother body has deened as poisonous to your immortal soul, I would advise you to read the Last Testament of Judah to his children. This you will find in the 'Last Testament of the Patriarchs,' one of the books in the Psuedepigrapha of the Old Testament in English, by R. H. Charles. I'll just give you a short summerary here, which might be of some interest to you, for there you will find that Tamar was bethrothed to the sons (Plural) of Judah, in which sons, Judah had no delight.

Against his Father's wish, Judah (While full as a boot and drunk as a coot) took to wife a Canaanite woman by the name Bathshua, and she bore to Judah his three sons, Er, Onan and Shelah, none of whom succeeded Judah the ancestral father to the tribe of that name, which is descended from the two sons sired by Judah and born of Tamar: Parez, the successor to Judah, and Zerah the minor tribe of the scarlet thread, (Very, Very important). Judah chose Tamar as the wife for his son ER, and although I had said previously that she was the daughter of Levi, which no one picked up on, (It's hard to get a serious debate going in this forum) Tamar was in fact the daughter of a priest named Aram from Mesopotamia.

But Bashua did not want grand children by Tamar, as she was not a Canaanite and on the third night when Er had still not consumated the union, he was killed by an angel or so the story goes. Tamar was then given to Onan, but his mother Bathshua forbid that he sire a child to her, and after twelve months, when Judah found out, he commanded that his son Onan go into her, but he spilled his seed on the ground according to the command of his mother, and he died through wickness, and Judah wished to give Shelah to Tamar, but his mother did not permit it, because Tamar was not of the daughters of Canaan as she was. And while Judah was away, Bathshua went and took for Shelah a wife from Canaan; had not Judah sired the two sons to Tamah, he would have died childless, this he himself confesses to his descendants.

Cool, todah for the info.