Was Mohammed always a muslim? (Jesus, rituals, beliefs, choice)

[Steinninn]

Originally Posted by Azakel

I believe it should be noted that not all groups of Christianity Baptize babies. I believe that is a Catholic only thing.

I'm sure most christians babtize, not only catholics. Also Anglecan chruch, luthern and well, most of them. But sure there are a few exeptions like Quaker or Salvation Army churches that don't babtize at all.

[Azakel]

Originally Posted by Steinninn

I'm sure most christians babtize, not only catholics. Also Anglecan chruch, luthern and well, most of them. But sure there are a few exeptions like Quaker or Salvation Army churches that don't babtize at all.

What's babtize? It's that a word you're using to say Baptize babies?

[Steinninn]

Originally Posted by Azakel

What's babtize? It's that a word you're using to say Baptize babies?

I'm sorry, I'm Icelandic and my english spelling isn't always 100%

[Azakel]

Originally Posted by Steinninn

I'm sorry, I'm Icelandic and my english spelling isn't always 100%

It's okay, I'm American and my English still sucks at time too. ^_^

[Gharib]

Originally Posted by .lava

sweet friend, i think there is a misunderstanding. being a Muslim is a choice which could be made by individual's free will. person has to be volunteer. new born babies and children until age of 14 are not responsible of their actions. they are not considered as people at proper age to make decision as we do now. i believe this confusion rooted in difference between nature of man and religion. let me try to explain with verse of Qur'an.

30:30 Then set your face upright for religion in the right state-- the nature made by Allah in which He has made men; there is no altering of Allah's creation; that is the right religion, but most people do not know--

that nature is haneef nature. every person is born with that nature. if a kid dies, it was said he enters heaven. because they die before they make any choice so they die innocent. this nature would not change therefor commands of God does not apply different from one race to another. even though there are different races, they all have the same haneef nature (Haneef fitrat)

that might be not quite right to say new borns are Muslims, but they are born upon Islam. their bodies are clean, their minds are clean..etc they can not use their free will, so they are naturally submitted, fair to say they are Islam/submitted. but this is not their choice, this is the nature.

i hope i am not confusing you.

you have made your point and i understand now thank you. but the thing that i'm saying is that a child is innocent and has no sins and if they die they enter heaven just as you have said. so in a way they can be called muslims right even though most people don't want that.
and thanks for the explanation

[anders]

Originally Posted by Suraj

I know, I've been talking about them

Manat is Shiva. Somanath. Moon god. There is a very clear mention to Shiva by Mohammed's uncle. I have reproduced that poem several times now.

Apart from that your mentioned quote isn't clear at all, and that you still can't link to the supposed poem from its suggested originator in a way that makes it possible to read it in the proposed original language, or even in a scientific transliteration, there's nothing but assertations to discuss. Those facts (do they even exist?) are for you to provide, as you're making the claims. I won't do the job for you. At least until you provide concrete material, I call BS.

Just to repeat myself, not every crescent moon in the world refers to Shiva, and there is no proof anywhere that Semitic Moon deities have any connection whatsoever with Indian gods.

You claim that Indian Ila is equivalent to Semitic Ilah. I repeat that Indian Ila/Ilaa is an androgyneuos deity, and that their name or place in the Hindu pantheon can't in any way be compared to any ilah, El, Manat, al-'Uzzah etc. in pre-Islamic sets of beliefs.

Don't get me too wrong. I spend a lot of time on researching religions and languages of the Subcontinent, and there are several aspects there that I really like and hope to pursue. What I don't like is when Hindu extremists like P.N. Oak and his RSS pals distort proven history to suit their political goals.

Ancient India is awesome, and can still teach us a lot. That's from where we got the zero, and recognition of its advanced astronomical and other knowledge could have saved Europe from a long history of darkness, had we been able to absorb it. It's a shame that "religious" frame sets keep people from assembling the positive aspects of different world views into a coherent mindset that could be accepted by a majority of Earth dwellers.

[herushura]

Originally Posted by Azakel

What's babtize? It's that a word you're using to say Baptize babies?

Baptism can be explained with the Constallation Aquarius, Aquarius is in February Time, The Word February comes from the word Febur meaning to "Cleanse"

Aquarius is a Man carying a jar of water, This is the water used to Cleanse in which the reason we call the second month february. February is quite a cold rainy month so aquarius also bring the spring rains. Aquarius symbol is Air, thus why we baptise with holy spirit, Spirit in both greek and hebrew means "Air" Jesus meats John the Aquarian when the sun is in aquarius, John the aquarian dies when he disapears below the horizon, there is a point as when he disappears only his head is shown.

[herushura]

[quote=Suraj;1319283]Hindu is a religion; Arabs is a region. The religion of Arabia was Hindu. That is what the above evidence clearly shows.[/quote

The Religion of Arabia was not Hindu it was the Assyrian or metopotamian Religions, Assyria means Assur. Assur was a Sun diety. They Worshipped Polythesis gods like Anu,Ea,Enki Allulim, marduk, the Great Mother, they had creation storys of there own. They were not Hindu but i guess the Religion most likely evolved into hinduism.

Ancient Semitic religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[anders]

Originally Posted by herushura

The Religion of Arabia was not Hindu it was the Assyrian or metopotamian Religions, Assyria means Assur. Assur was a Sun diety. They Worshipped Polythesis gods like Anu,Ea,Enki Allulim, marduk, the Great Mother, they had creation storys of there own. They were not Hindu but i guess the Religion most likely evolved into hinduism.

Ancient Semitic religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You're probably correct in referring to pre-Islamic Assyrian (and/or Sumerian) beliefs. I agree that there are no unambiguous traces of Indian religious beliefs ever found west of present East Afghanistan.

[England my lionheart]

at the age of 7 a child in islam is obligated to start prayer, start to practice Islamic rituals)
and he never worshiped an idol in his life even though he was surrounded by them, he always beleived that there was a being (in this case Allah) that created everything.

First ,you cannot be born into a belief and if you were why would you be obligated to start your prayers and practice rituals,is it more a case of Monkey see Monkey do or do as you are told as in many religions.
There were many belief systems long before Christianity and Muslim,Jewish,Hindu
etc and undoubtedly many with one God as in the case of Akhenaton who even built a city devoted to his God.