The Church...Tax-Exempt Status...Prop 8 (tradition, minority, homosexuality, Mormonism)

[Father Heathen]

Originally Posted by zippythepinhead

They ban Mormonism, they will ban Atheism. First they take away my right, then yours. The enemies of freedom are always looking to take away rights of all people.

I would think that you of all people would support the right to disagree with another, yet respect their opinions to be expressed through the legitimate public discourse.

I don't agree with you often Heathen, but I do respect your right to express yourself in a culturally acceptable way. I would put my life on the line to defend your right to express yourself rather than have you silenced because some group, such as the Mormons of which I am one, disagree with you.

Duh! That was the whole damn point of my post! Of course banning Mormonism would be wrong, for exactly the same reason banning gay marriage would be wrong! I'm glad you finally understand.

[tomspug]

Originally Posted by Father Heathen

This is why organized religion frightens me. People abandon independent thought and blindly follow the will of their meddling church leaders like puppets. I really do hope a lot of them lose their tax exempt status. Organized religion is a very successful racket, and I see no reason why the state shouldn't have a slice of that pie, so they could turn around and use it for something actually useful like schools and such.

You know, you're so ignorant on this issue. Churches are called "non-profit" for a reason. Because they DON'T make a profit. Duh! I think you've been watching too much Adult Swim.

[Father Heathen]

Originally Posted by tomspug

You know, you're so ignorant on this issue. Churches are called "non-profit" for a reason. Because they DON'T make a profit. Duh! I think you've been watching too much Adult Swim.

Oh, yeah, merely calling themselves something really changes everything. How do you explain the mass amounts of wealth they have? You would have to be a fool not to see the big money in evangelism.

[Father Heathen]

Originally Posted by fantôme profane

That is exactly the point Father Heathen is trying to make. If you can take away other peoples right to same sex marriage you open the door for others to take away your right to practice your religion as you choose. It is those who support prop 8 who are the enemies freedom.

Indeed. Thank you!

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by tomspug

You know, you're so ignorant on this issue. Churches are called "non-profit" for a reason. Because they DON'T make a profit. Duh! I think you've been watching too much Adult Swim.

My car club is a non-profit. It pays no tax, but I don't get a tax deduction for my dues.

[Father Heathen]

Originally Posted by zippythepinhead

Give it a try. Baptism for the Dead is a tenent of my faith and it is going nowhere. If you don't accept it though I respect that. But why would you tell any religion how they are to worship God or whatever diety they choose? Liberalism is to take away the rights of the people slowly until we one day realize, "Damn, we are screwed!" and it is too late. I for one am not going to be the frog in the boiling water to wait for other sheople to take away my rights slowly and subltely until I wake up one day disenfranchised because I don't believe as those in power do!

After they come for me, then they come for you. That is how history works my friend

You're not in any position to tell others about history and what poses threat to freedom. You need to feed those lines to yourself. It's the conservatives who have a history of trying to either deny or reduce the rights of homosexuals, women, minorities, etc. While on the other hand Liberals have a history of trying to defend and expand the rights of the people. See, you're the one being an enemy of freedom here.
Can you not wrap your brain around analogies? NO BODY here wants to take your Mormon beliefs or practices away. It's a hypothetical question; if it's okay for you take the rights of gays away, why wouldn't it also be okay to take the rights of Mormons away?

[Father Heathen]

Originally Posted by zippythepinhead

I believe marriage is ordained of God.

Then shouldn't atheists also be barred from marriage, based on this whole "god" thing? Besides, why should those who don't share your believes have their rights restricted due to them? How would you feel if you weren't allowed to eat meat because they passed a law based on the Hindu belief that it's wrong? Surely you wouldn't be too happy about losing a right based on someone else's religious beliefs? There is a reason we have separation of church and state. Laws have to be based on something a little more substantial than religious gobbledygook - there was to be a real world reason, relevant to everybody! If Mormons don't believe in gay marriages, simply don't partake in or perform them. Why can't religious folk just keep their snouts out of other people's business and worry about their own lives?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by Father Heathen

Then shouldn't atheists also be barred from marriage, based on this whole "god" thing?

... along with theists who don't believe in the same god as Zippy?

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by zippythepinhead

Give it a try. Baptism for the Dead is a tenent of my faith and it is going nowhere. If you don't accept it though I respect that. But why would you tell any religion how they are to worship God or whatever diety they choose?

You don't seem to understand the nature of hypocrisy.

How can you believe it is fine to try and ban certain people from marrying because you don't believe it is right for them to do so, then immediately turn around say it is not fine for people who believe baptising in the name of the dead is wrong to attempt to get that practice banned?

Whatever the situation, be it denying a person's right to marry the person they love or denying a person's right to worship how they wish, both are cases of denying people other than yourselves the right to practices that have nothing to do with you and based only upon your own personal beliefs. I find it despicable.

[Magic Man]

Originally Posted by zippythepinhead

Why do gays feel it necessary to tell society what marriage should be and cram it down our throats? Turn the question around.

They're not cramming it down your throat, and they're not telling anyone what marriage should be. That's what you're doing.

Why do people such as myself who oppose gay marriage have to sit here and take put downs and insults such as bigots, xenophobes, homophobes, etc. from the so called enlightened?

Because your views on this subject are bigotted, xenophobic and homophobic.

Why do we have to compromise our values to accomodate yours? We don't.

You're right, you don't. No one is saying you have to marry someone of the same sex, and no one is saying that your church has to perform same-sex marriages. Nothing you do is compromised. It has nothing to do with you. Of course, if one of your values is to tell everyone else what to do, then, yes, that value is going to be compromised. I think we can both agree, though, that that is a value that needs to be compromised. You wouldn't want me telling you what to do, would you?