Attack of the She-Bears...

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by emiliano

Penguiedn

They were potential evil rulers,

Every first-born boy of Egypt was a potential evil ruler?

Originally Posted by emiliano

and of notice is the Pharaoh was a first born (he was the previous king’s heir) but he didn’t die,

Why must he have been the first-born? There are plenty of instances in history of kings ascending to the throne after their older brothers die without sons.

Originally Posted by emiliano

The answer to this is in God’s omniscience, God knew what kind of ruler they were going to turn out to be.

And was incapable of steering them from their evil paths, and therefore was forced to kill them, correct?

Why would you assume that the God capable of turning the heart of the persecutor Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus would be incapable of turning the hearts of the Egyptian first-born sons?

[emiliano]

Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin

Every first-born boy of Egypt was a potential evil ruler?
Why must he have been the first-born? There are plenty of instances in history of kings ascending to the throne after their older brothers die without sons.
And was incapable of steering them from their evil paths, and therefore was forced to kill them, correct?
Why would you assume that the God capable of turning the heart of the persecutor Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus would be incapable of turning the hearts of the Egyptian first-born sons?

Foreknowledge! The Lord knew what Saul of Tarsus was going to be, an instrument for the evangelization of the gentiles, Pharaoh? We don’t know but there is a great chance that he was the previous king first born son, also of notice is that after this encounter with the Almighty He became a much better ruler although I am just guessing, nobody know this for sure, we only know that they were powerful and prosperous in spite of loosing their Hebrew slaves, perhaps God had Mercy on the Egyptian and as always turned evil into good.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by emiliano

Foreknowledge!

yourself.

Foreknowledge will tell you the results of an action. It doesn't limit your actions.

With a combination of perfect foreknowledge and perfect wisdom, God would be capable of devising a method to turn the first-born sons of Egypt from evil without killing them, wouldn't He?

With perfect omnipotence, He would be capable of putting that plan into action, wouldn't He?

So... which is it:

- God does not have perfect foreknowledge
- God does not have perfect wisdom
- God is not perfectly omnipotent
- God is a bloodthirsty god who needlessly kills children
- the Passover story did not actually happen as described in the Bible
- some combination of the above

[emiliano]

9/10th Penguin. As I said it work perfectly.
- God does not have perfect foreknowledge
Wrong and the final result confirmed it.

- God does not have perfect wisdom
It work perfectly, God delivered His chosen and the Egyptians changed for the better.

- God is not perfectly omnipotent
His will was done, sooo what are going on about?

- God is a bloodthirsty god who needlessly kills children
It was not needless, the Egyptians needed correction.

- the Passover story did not actually happen as described in the Bible
Well you are a sceptic so comes as no surprise.

- some combination of the above

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by emiliano

9/10th Penguin. As I said it work perfectly.
- God does not have perfect foreknowledge
Wrong and the final result confirmed it.

How so?

Originally Posted by emiliano

- God does not have perfect wisdom
It work perfectly, God delivered His chosen and the Egyptians changed for the better.

But He didn't have so much wisdom that He could formulate a way to turn the Egyptians from evil without killing them, did He?

Originally Posted by emiliano

- God is not perfectly omnipotent
His will was done, sooo what are going on about?

I'm giving allowances for the possibility that God didn't really want to kill all those innocent children, but for some reason had no other choice.

Originally Posted by emiliano

- God is a bloodthirsty god who needlessly kills children
It was not needless, the Egyptians needed correction.

The killing was needless in the sense that God would have been capable of correcting the Egyptians through non-fatal means.

Originally Posted by emiliano

- the Passover story did not actually happen as described in the Bible
Well you are a sceptic so comes as no surprise.

Meh. One way of resolving the conflict is by removing it.

Originally Posted by emiliano

- some combination of the above

More than one possibility might be true. That's all I was getting at. Just because God might be bloodthirsty doesn't necessarily make Him omnipotent, and just because God might not have perfect foreknowledge doesn't necessarily mean that the Passover story actually happened.

[emiliano]

9/10th Penguin.

But He didn't have so much wisdom that He could formulate a way to turn the Egyptians from evil without killing them, did He?

Let see God communicated to His servant Moses that He knew of the plight of His chosen (by an absolute sovereign choice) and that He has elected him to be the instrument for Israel’s liberation. Pharaoh thought himself a God and challenged the God of the Hebrews, the Egyptian believed that Pharaoh was a God, I think that the way that God handle this was wise. Moses said to Pharaoh “Thus says the Lord: Israel is My son, My first-born”
“I say to you, Let My son go, that he may serve Me. And if you refuse to let him go, behold, I am going to kill your son, your first-born”
Pharaoh responded with attitude “Who is Jehovah, that I should obey His voice to let Israel go? I do not know Jehovah, neither will I let Israel go” as you know the outcome of this encounters was, God delivered His people with strong hand just as He promised and used Moses as He said.

I'm giving allowances for the possibility that God didn't really want to kill all those innocent children, but for some reason had no other choice.

Oh thanks mighty one I am sure that this makes God feel pretty secure, He has a chance. Do you think that God’ godship is secure now that you gave Him a second chance?

Meh. One way of resolving the conflict is by removing it.

But 9 10th bird that is exactly what He did, remove the problem, the first born, just as He warned Pharaoh. “if you refuse to let him go, behold, I am going to kill your son, your first-born”