Jesus the Messiah? (Earth, Kingdom, virgin, Isaiah, church)

[raibeart]

I am not trying to change anyones thoughts about Jesus. I for one am OT Christian. I do not follow the NT verbatum. I do infact like some of the ideology in it, but do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah. . But I would however like to keep this unbiased.

How many of you believe that Jesus is the Messiah and how many of you don't. And what is your reasoning?

I will actively be involved in this forum.

[Charity]

I believe Jesus to be the Christ, the Messiah spoken in the OT.

[ChristineES]

I believe Jesus is Messiah. A lot of the prophecies spoken of in the OT do point to that fact. Especially Isaiah.

[stacey bo bacey]

I don't. And not just because there is no god.

I can't say this enough, and I know we all understand it when someone says Earth is an infinitesimal speck in space and time....but really. It is. And no one is that concerned with us. And they certainly didn't send someone down here through a so-called virgin birth to save us from a lake of fire.........

Blech the wording of that sounds nasty but I don't intend it to be at all. Just me opnion! So no. He existed but he was no son of god.

[Poisonshady313]

Jesus is not the Messiah.

Quite simply, the prophecies/requirements are written in the Tanach (old testament), and they have not been fulfilled... by anybody. The Messiah has not come... hence it cannot be Jesus.

Many Christians use hundreds of verses from the Tanach (old testament) to try and prove that Jesus was the messiah.

Here's the problem:

The problem is, the verses of text pointed to are often not prophecy at all, yet Christians declare it is anyway.

Some of the verses of text pointed to that ARE prophecy were already fulfilled (NOT MESSIANIC).... like a sealed envelope... you can't put anything else into a sealed envelope.

Christians rarely ever point to real messianic prophecy... and if they do, the attempt to justify the claim that Jesus fulfilled them requires all kinds of twisting, stretching, fabricating, etc...

I can tell you why Jesus didn't even fulfill one messianic prophecy in one sentence:

The Third Holy Temple in Jerusalem has not been built.


I have asked in threads created for the purpose of that question alone, how could you show using the Tanach that the building of the Temple (and world peace, ingathering of exiles, universal service of God, etc..) would not happen in the first and only lifetime of the Messiah. If there were supposed to be two comings of Moshiach ben David, using the Tanach alone, how could you identify the first one as opposed to the second one?

I have been told by Christians in those threads that the question cannot be answered. Such a thing cannot be shown.

[raibeart]

Poisonshady, thank you. I cannot have said it better myself. I for one, after much studing of the OT, is convinced that Jesus was not in fact the Messiah. Mind you I lean more toward Judaism only because it is one of, if not the only, religion that believes that Jesus is not the Messiah. I didn't start studying or even thinking this till recently when I started studing Judaism, because of my fiance's family. I then looked into why the Jewish nation does not believe that Jesus was the Messiah and have drawn my own conlusion that he cannot in fact be the Messiah.

[Jeremy Mason]

Put me down for Jesus is the Messiah and according to a Muslim Staff member here on RF, Muslims recognize Jesus to be the Messiah. Any thoughts?

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by raibeart

Mind you I lean more toward Judaism only because it is one of, if not the only, religion that believes that Jesus is not the Messiah.

That strikes me as both odd and sad.

[Dunemeister]

Poisonshady,

I believe Jesus is the promised Messiah, but I also understand where you're coming from with respect to how the early Christian community reinterpreted the Tanach in light of Jesus. The early church basically re-read the Tanach in light of Jesus ministry, death and resurrection. Not only did this involve a reworking of the notion of the kingdom of God, but it also demanded a thorough reworking of the concepts of Messiah and resurrection. It was in light of that that the church (all Jews in the beginning) looked back into the scriptures and saw many of its passages in a whole new light. The question is, why would the church have done such a thing?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Mason

Put me down for Jesus is the Messiah and according to a Muslim Staff member here on RF, Muslims recognize Jesus to be the Messiah. Any thoughts?

Muslims recognize Jesus as a prophet in the same line as Muhammed. In fact, after saying Jesus' name they are supposed to say "peace be upon him" as they do with Muhammaed