Why the lie?

[Dunemeister]

Originally Posted by Kcnorwood

Still my question still stands why if the christians were so sure that thier religion was the right one why didn't they let people come to God under thier own power?

I might of been wrong about the translation & thats fine with me, but the question still stands. Untill this day you hear preachers going off about how Witchcraft is a sin in the eyes of thier God, hence he is lieing to those people.

First, the church in the period we're discussing didn't force conversions. People came to the faith "under their own power." Subverting the festivals was a good evangelistic strategy -- one that should be admired for its audacity and effectiveness if not for its results (assuming you think it's a shame that the pagans converted in such great numbers). Besides, it was in keeping with the Christian notion that paganism didn't get everything wrong. So by subverting the pagan festivals, the Christians saw themselves as redeeming rather than destroying pagan practices that were worthy of being redeemed.

As for the preacher preaching about witchcraft, I don't think he's lying. He may be deceived about what the word translated "witchcraft" actually means. But then you have to ask whether the practices the preacher decries as witchcraft (using the term erroneously) are actually frowned upon by God. It seems to me that various forms of occult dealings ARE frowned upon by God, either explicitly or implicitly, so inveighing against them is the proper thing to do in the context of Christain discipleship.

[Kcnorwood]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

Billions? Did someone take a poll while I was napping? Even so, where's the lie? It seems to me that the general history goes something like this. First, the church institutes a festival to subvert an existing pagan one. As a result, the pagan meaning of the festival is lost from popular culture and replaced with Christianized ones. The victory is so complete that laity (and much of the clergy) begin to associate the dates of the festivals (such as Christmas and Easter) with the actual events of Jesus life so that it becomes common belief that Jesus was born on December 25th, etc. It's more or less forgotten that these dates once had pagan influence.

This doesn't sound like a lie to me. It sounds like forgetting history. Lying implies that the church was teaching deliberate falsehood, and I just don't think we can charge the church with that in the case of the festivals mentioned in the OP (or even All Saints Day for that matter).

I guess this is where we'll always disagee & thats fine but who gave the Christians of the day the right to come & impose thier will on others? Might does not make right.

[Mister Emu]

Easter did incorporate many of the Pagan rituals associated with their Vernal Equinox celebrations.

If you are talking about the modern commercialized version of Easter, I agree...

There's also St. Valentine's Day, possibly, which is sometimes linked to the Roman festival Lupercalia

St. Valentine's Day did not have any romantic qualities until Chaucer in the 14th century, and there is no demonstrateable connection aside from Feb. 14th being the middle of Lupercalia(Feb. 13-15)...

Also, St. Brigid's Day seems to me to have its roots in Irish Celtic celebrations of the beginning of spring.

You may be right, if I've heard of it before now, I can't remember

then they should of paid more
Attention to what thier bible said.

The Bible says that Jesus died, and was ressurected ~Passover...

There are billions of Christians in the world today who believe that Christ was born on the 25th of dec, And that Easter was his rebirth. Then there are those who know that these days are truly Pagan holidays & try to tell others that they should stop celebrating them

And then there are those who know the date of Pascha has nothing to do with Pagan festivities, and is tied to Passover. And I suspect very few people actually believe Jesus was born on December 25th...

All Hallows Eve became All Saints day again was taken over by the Catholics

All Saints' Day precedes its move to Nov. 1, and in the East is celebrated the first Sunday after Pentecost

Same for Easter

See: Passover

[Ciarin]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

I mean a source that explains the translation issues involved.

Be more specific. Do you want a translation reference or a KJV historical reference?

[Jayhawker Soule]

Has anyone actually taken the time to refer to any of the standard Tanakh translations?

[Mister Emu]

JPS 1917:
Thou shalt not suffer a sorceress to live

Is something akin to what you were asking about? If not my apologies...

[UltraViolet]

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

JPS 1917:
Thou shalt not suffer a sorceress to live

Is something akin to what you were asking about? If not my apologies...

Looks like I am in big freiking trouble.

[Kcnorwood]

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

JPS 1917:
Thou shalt not suffer a sorceress to live

Is something akin to what you were asking about? If not my apologies...

There is several translantion to this verse it would seem.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Kcnorwood

There is several translantion to this verse it would seem.

Do you have a point?