Why the lie?

[Dunemeister]

Originally Posted by Ciarin

Be more specific. Do you want a translation reference or a KJV historical reference?

There are several issues. First, there's the issue of which original text you're using. Are you relying on the Hebrew or the Septuagint (Greek)? Second, there's the issue of textual criticism. Do we have any other uses of that word in or out of the bible that might shed light on its meaning? Third, there's the issue of rendering into English. Are there better words than "witch" or "sorceress" or whatever the offending word is? I'm looking for a reference that might deal with all this stuff.

[Dunemeister]

Originally Posted by Kcnorwood

I guess this is where we'll always disagee & thats fine but who gave the Christians of the day the right to come & impose thier will on others? Might does not make right.

Where's the imposition? Pagans were free to celebrate their festivals. That the church had an alternative didn't change that. Even in AD 600, the church was weak compared with the ancient culture, and that was true for a long time even after Christianity became the state religion. (The Roman emperors by this time had long ceased to be the omnipotent powers they once were, so official sanction did not mean that the church all of a sudden had vast Imperial powers at their disposal.)

This notion that the church ran about burning heretics and pagans willy-nilly, especially prior to the Middle Ages, is simply a crass distortion of history.

[gnomon]

Originally Posted by Kcnorwood

I guess this is where we'll always disagee & thats fine but who gave the Christians of the day the right to come & impose thier will on others? Might does not make right.

That's an easy question to answer.

The pagans did.

[Kcnorwood]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

Where's the imposition? Pagans were free to celebrate their festivals. That the church had an alternative didn't change that. Even in AD 600, the church was weak compared with the ancient culture, and that was true for a long time even after Christianity became the state religion. (The Roman emperors by this time had long ceased to be the omnipotent powers they once were, so official sanction did not mean that the church all of a sudden had vast Imperial powers at their disposal.)

This notion that the church ran about burning heretics and pagans willy-nilly, especially prior to the Middle Ages, is simply a crass distortion of history.

Like you have asked others do you have any proof to back this up?

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

There are several issues. First, there's the issue of which original text you're using. Are you relying on the Hebrew or the Septuagint (Greek)? Second, there's the issue of textual criticism. Do we have any other uses of that word in or out of the bible that might shed light on its meaning? Third, there's the issue of rendering into English. Are there better words than "witch" or "sorceress" or whatever the offending word is? I'm looking for a reference that might deal with all this stuff.

which original?
You are kidding right?
How many "originals" are there?

[Dunemeister]

Originally Posted by Mestemia

which original?
You are kidding right?
How many "originals" are there?

I'm quite serious. Are we starting with the Hebrew (Massoretic Text, for example) or the Greek (Septuagint) is what I'm asking. The other issues I've raised are all legitimate, too. I'm not actually questioning the claim of mistranslation. I don't know enough about it. I'm hoping someone can point me to a source that explains the issue at greater length.

[Dunemeister]

Originally Posted by Kcnorwood

Like you have asked others do you have any proof to back this up?

Just about every history book written on the topic. I defy you to find one confirmed case of the church using military force to coerce conversions in the first six centuries of its existence.

[Kcnorwood]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

Just about every history book written on the topic. I defy you to find one confirmed case of the church using military force to coerce conversions in the first six centuries of its existence.

Once again we're talking about to very different time periods I'm not even sure how we did that.