You Can't Legislate Morality

[The Voice of Reason]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

VOR, I think I was your antagonist in that previous discussion. I argued there (and here) that the political act of creating laws is a moral act. When you legislate any law, whether it's criminal, procedural, or whatever, you are implying something about morality. It's wrong, we believe, to drive faster than 70 mph on a freeway. Germans demur, saying you can go as fast as you want. Both countries have legislation that determines how fast you can go on a freeway. In both cases, the issue is moral. It may be at two or three removes, but the point is that, in the end, we are drawing moral laws in the sand with our legislation.

Thanks for the response, Dunemeister, but it really wasn't you that sparked the thread. I was actually referring to a post by the original founder of RF, in a thread sometime in 2004 or so. His screenname was Rex.

As for the content of your post, I agree with much of what you say. I need to think about your claim that a law "implying something about morality".

I don't know that I agree with that, and I need to process it.

[Nessa]

Originally Posted by Troublemane

i think laws can be moral, since they regulate behavior as the society wishes. but, yeah, its gonna change depending on the time, culture and contemporary thoughts/opinions.
.

Doesn't your sentence support the notion that laws can also be immoral? Shouldn't morality be absolute? I realize that's subjective, though. As an example, when America decided slavery was immoral, they didn't change morality but reversed their opinion of morality.

[Dunemeister]

Originally Posted by Nessa

Doesn't your sentence support the notion that laws can also be immoral? Shouldn't morality be absolute? I realize that's subjective, though. As an example, when America decided slavery was immoral, they didn't change morality but reversed their opinion of morality.

Yes, laws can be immoral. Some people believe that huge tax breaks for corporations are immoral, for example. Slavery was immoral. Changing the laws didn't change what was actually moral, but in both cases -- legalization and outlawing of slavery -- represented attempts to put into law the morality of the day.

[UltraViolet]

As I edited in up above...

There is no "right" or "wrong" speedlimit.
Just a "chosen" one.

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

Is it immoral to operate a vehicle at such a speed that it is dangerous to the health and welfare of yourself, your passengers, and other drivers? I think so.

And people could CERTAINLY argue about what speed that might be.
There is no "absolute" about it.

So some kind of a standard is chosen, and put in place for everyone's safety.

[The Voice of Reason]

Like UltraViolet, I can see a distinction between a law that is passed for the issue of safety, as opposed to one that is passed on moral grounds.

It may be that there are other "classes" of laws, besides those two.

I can also see your point, Dune, when you speak of the morality of endangering another person. I would submit items like the OSHA regulations, which are enacted strictly for the purpose of ensuring workplace safety, but don't readily appear to have a moral basis.

A good example would be the rules regarding the angle of lean for a ladder in the workplace.

[Dunemeister]

Originally Posted by The Voice of Reason

Thanks for the response, Dunemeister, but it really wasn't you that sparked the thread. I was actually referring to a post by the original founder of RF, in a thread sometime in 2004 or so. His screenname was Rex.

Ah, well sorry for trying to take credit where it wasn't due. Old habits die hard.

[The Voice of Reason]

Originally Posted by Nessa

Doesn't your sentence support the notion that laws can also be immoral? Shouldn't morality be absolute? I realize that's subjective, though. As an example, when America decided slavery was immoral, they didn't change morality but reversed their opinion of morality.

I don't see any possibility that morals can be absolute.

As stated earlier in the thread, morals are subject to the culture and times that they are part of.